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Thread: The BTB Discussion Thread

  1. #15901

    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GCB View Post
    A question for you all ...

    Turning a babyface into a heel is a fairly easy concept. Have something shocking happen and bang, you've turned them in an instant.

    But what about the other way round? How do you turn a heel into a babyface? I don't think that it's as easy a concept to achieve.

    Been trying to think of ways to do it as I am stumped for something I'm looking to do. I'm trying to think of the best heel to face turns I can remember but they seem to be more organic in that it was more the fans turning them or a really slow build. One tried and trusted way would be for a heel to turn on his partner or to save another babyface but I find those harder to write, harder to justify/explain and feel that the reader can often see them coming a mile off.

    So I'm throwing it out there to you guys. How do you go about turning a bad guy into a good guy in a believable manner?
    It's the same as turning a face into a heel. Find the emotional hook that could cause a heel to have a change of heart. Whether it's feeling as if other heels are going too far, gaining respect for someone due to their heart, or being humbled.

    Look back at the big face turns in wrestling history to get a better idea of how it's done.
    Last edited by Jim; 05-31-2021 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #15902
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    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    It's the same as turning a face into a heel. Find the emotional hook that could cause a heel to have a change of heart. Whether it's feeling as if other heels are going too far, gaining respect for someone due to their heart, or being humbled.

    Look back at the big face turns in wrestling history to get a better idea of how it's done.
    I agree that, in simplistic terms, it's the opposite. But I'm not convinced it's as easy to do. I think it's a longer build and it's easy to signpost the turn to your reader. Whereas turning somebody heel is easier to do in one swoop and nobody sees it coming.

    >>> http://wrestlingclique.com/showthread.php?t=176040 <<<

  3. #15903

    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GCB View Post
    I agree that, in simplistic terms, it's the opposite. But I'm not convinced it's as easy to do. I think it's a longer build and it's easy to signpost the turn to your reader. Whereas turning somebody heel is easier to do in one swoop and nobody sees it coming.
    It doesn't have to be. Sometimes literally all there needs to be is a greater heel or a bigger heel moment that they don't agree with. Lex Luger turned into WWE's #1 babyface literally just by body slamming the #1 heel. Jimmy Hart turned face one night because he thought Money Inc was taking a beat down too far. The Undertaker's 2002 babyface turn was basically kicked off by Jeff Hardy refusing to stay down during beatdowns.

    Pro wrestling isn't complicated. Typically when you try to overthink it is when you mess it up.

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    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    It doesn't have to be. Sometimes literally all there needs to be is a greater heel or a bigger heel moment that they don't agree with. Lex Luger turned into WWE's #1 babyface literally just by body slamming the #1 heel. Jimmy Hart turned face one night because he thought Money Inc was taking a beat down too far. The Undertaker's 2002 babyface turn was basically kicked off by Jeff Hardy refusing to stay down during beatdowns.

    Pro wrestling isn't complicated. Typically when you try to overthink it is when you mess it up.
    Maybe I'm overcomplicating it then! Good examples there though. I guess I'm thinking too much about the slow burner turns (Punk, Bryan, Austin) and forgetting some of the obvious ones, like those you just mentioned.

    >>> http://wrestlingclique.com/showthread.php?t=176040 <<<

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    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    I get the impression that what you are really looking at is the turns that evolve the character. The story of a "bad character" finding redemption / seeing the error of their ways / finding a new path. That's a fine way to do it. But there aren't really limits. It can be a sudden moment - whether that's just an epiphany moment or brought by a catalyst (getting attacked, etc) - or a slow burn.

    But the character really doesn't NEED to change or evolve. You can keep the exact same character with the same negative traits if you want. You simply have to give the fans reason to cheer for them instead. This can be hard in real booking because you can't dictate the fan reaction the same way as in fantasy booking. Think about it from the fan perspective rather the character if you want to see more possibilities.

    You can keep the character exactly the same or blur them a bit. By that, I mean you don't necessarily remove the negative traits that made them a heel, but just simply emphasize them less. Or keep them full-blown heel in mentality but simply doing something (aligned with someone, aligned against someone) that ensures they get the cheers. The fun aspect of this approach is that it makes them super-easy to turn back and even if the return to heeldom feels inevitable, you can have fun with teasing when and why it actually happens.

    If you are looking for inspiration, the territorial era is a goldmine.
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    Re: The BTB Discussion Thread

    Is there a way to bring back text that was accidentlly lost? I tried to post in my booker and it said that i need to hit back and refresh and I lost it all.




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