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Thread: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

  1. #381
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    It's very rare that a team wins two penalty shootouts in a tournament, so if you're going to pick one individual in a team of great performers, winning those key battles is probably edged the award for Donnarumma. I think they may have given the award to Jorginho had he not missed his pen.

    Sir Alex Ferguson once took Wes Brown off for Anderson in the 125th minute of a Champions League Final and he went on to score his pen and Utd won the CL. If it's a good enough tactic for the greatest manager of all time, it's a good enough tactic for Gareth Southgate. It's one of the most common tactics of any final that's going to penalties. Get confident penalty taker on for someone you know would be bottom of a potential takers list with minutes to go. I think you could have brought Sancho on a little sooner because his pace might have hurt them, but Rashford has been poor for months, there's no way I'd have wanted him to come on earlier over players who were having a great tournament. One of the missing pieces of the puzzle that England are missing from a tournament winning side is they have no depth to their penalty takers and it's unlikely you can win a tournament without having to go through one shootout. I said to the lads in the whatsapp group with about 20 minutes to go that there's really only Kane and Rashford who you'd back to score a penalty (trips too but he'd gone by this point), everyone else is an unknown quality, ltaly would always be favourites on pens. Maguire though, what a beauty of a pen that was, that was a bonus.

    I still have a hard time criticising the tactics of a manager who has given England 2 of the best 5 football tournaments the country has ever had. I understand pondering the 'what ifs' (which swings both ways, if we were more attacking, there'd be more space for Italy to attack us) but there's been people criticising him before the tournament even begun and we went beyond most reasonable fans expectations. I don't like the all or nothing reaction to his job performance - we are definitely in a better place to where we were in 2016. Italy were the best side at the tournament, haven't lost for 3 years, and we come closer than anyone came to beating them. People didn't like the team news of going to 3/5 at the back, but we score from RWB crossing the ball for the LWB to score and that system helped us be 1-0 at HT. A lot of people can't comprehend that two football teams compete in one game and it's actually allowed/expected that a great team like Italy will have their moments of ascendancy and it's not a case of England sitting back, but more Italy were pushing us back and their experience and quality really started to shine. When Kane and Sterling are virtually untouchable to change when you are at 1-1, it doesn't leave a lot of options to make obvious subs. There wasn't a lot about extra time's performance that convinced me that if Grealish, Henderson and Saka had come on 15 minutes earlier, the game would have been any different.

    It's another step in the right direction for England and I think it was a summer that some players really stamped their name on this squad. I think Pickford has secured his position as #1 with a good tournament and some more mature performances, and the big ? about our defending before the tournament might now be put to bed with only 2 goals conceded in 7 games. Sterling should go down as one of our greatest players of the last 20 years, and hopefully a few of the younger lads in attack follow his route and get even better for the world cup. The future is bright and something to be proud of.

    CGS is right to bring up the home sec. in the discussion about the racist abuse. It comes from the top. We have a prime minister who has his own history of racist comments, and refused to condemn the booing of taking the knee before the tournament. We have piss-poor leadership from our politicians in this country. Maybe that's another reason why I like Southgate who is a true leader in every sense of the word.
    Last edited by Ed; 07-12-2021 at 01:05 PM.
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  2. #382
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Southgate deserves credit for making the final no doubt. Most managers wouldn't have gone with Rice and Phillips in the middle but they were brilliant all tournament. Most would have fallen for the clamour of playing Grealish and Foden a lot more, but he stuck to his guns. I would say the only time I was questioning a team line up was game 1 when he didn't start with Shaw, who for me was the standout player overall.
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Boris Johnson not knowing how to wear a football shirt properly really should have been the death of his every-man image
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    The abuse that the team and the questioning of Southgate are honestly baffling. Happy to cheer on a team that haven't got to a major final for over half a century but as soon as a mistake happens it's time to be a loud minority? It's obviously disappointing to lose the final, I imagine it's heartbreaking for people in England but look at the unity it brought the English people throughout the tournament only for a bunch of, let's face it, cunts to ruin it all with their racist pish. I do agree with the criticisms from the players towards the government who have done nothing to help the cause.

    Southgate is easily England's best manager in my lifetime and the FA will want to do their absolute best to keep him, the players clearly love playing for him. I can see England bouncing back and performing very well in the World Cup, hopefully we'll be joining you there.



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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    One of my favorite moments of the night:



    "IT'S COMING TO ROME!"

    And another of my favorite moments:



    Brilliant.

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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    In all seriousness though, Italy thoroughly deserved the win. I said from the very first game that I was impressed by them and fancied them to go all the way. They've been absolutely class throughout and it's a fantastic redemption story for this side having not even qualified for the last World Cup. I'm over the moon for Mancini, Vialli, Chiellini (who retired after the WC qualification failiure in shame). Donnarumma winning player of the tournament is absolutely justified. He's been a monster for them and won them 2 penalty shootouts. It's so hard to believe that he's only 22 years old, Italy have a world class goalkeeper at their disposal for the next 15 years at least there.

    England were excellent for most of the first half but then they literally fell off a cliff. The second half overall was largely uneventful but England in particular were absolutely dire I found. Harry Kane had another poor game last night, he was barely in the game, not that it was necessarily all his fault but I can't recall him even having a half chance on goal. In fact, aside from the goal itself I don't recall England having any other clear cut chances.
    Southgate has done a fantastic job throughout this tournament, despite playing what most would consider 'negative football' or 'parking the bus' tactics. But the fact is he got the job done and got the team tot he final. He got it very wrong however when it mattered. I don't understand why you wouldn't play a more attacking style against a team that's known to lack pace in the defensive areas. Fair enough he went for wing backs and stretched them but after scoring what happened to that approach? They sat back, invited pressure which pushed the wing backs backwards and meant that England sat so incredibly deep. It didn't get any better when he took Trippier off and put Saka on.
    Italy basically sussed out their tactics and England failed to switch it up effectively enough.

    I also agree that bringing on Sancho and Rashford with barely a minute left to play in extra time was a very silly move. Sure, they've been brought on with penalties in mine, but my quesiton is; why are you lplaying for penalties int he first place? Especially with England's historical record with shootouts and especially agianst a team that's renown for winning penalty shootouts and against a goalkeeper who's won 5 out of 5 shootouts in his career. Madness. You try and win the game in normal time or in extra time.
    He should have brought on Sancho and Rashford much earlier as their pace could have really hurt the tiring Italian defense late on in the game.

    As for the shootout, well, it was just a shambles. Rashford should have scored his, there's no excuse there. He sent the keeper the wrong way so he basically had an open goal. Sancho and Saka missing I have more sympathy for as they weren't particulary bad penalties (not great ones either mind) but Donnarumma went the right way, and when you're the size he is, if you go the right way for either of those penalties then it's a fairly easy save.
    Should Saka have been on that final penalty? No. Absolutely not. Not when you had guys like Sterling, Grealish even Shaw, Walker and Phillips on the pitch. He's never taken a penalty for Arsenal so to put him on such a high pressure spot kick in a major international final when he's never even taken one at club level before is a huge misjudgment on Southgate's behalf. Sure, he may have been banging them in in training but put him on the second spot kick or something. I don't know who to believe with regards to how the takers were picked. Whether the 5 that stood up were the ones that came forward or whether Southgate picked them himself. Who knows. Either way it was the wrong call to make and it's cost them dearly.

    To me, England looked mentaly exhausted. The mental challenge of getting to the final looked to have drained them and they weren't able to hold their nerve for the whole game. Essentially, they bottled it.

    As for the online racist abuse post-match, it's a fucking disgrace. I am also so pissed off at the social media companies trying their hardest to wash their hands of it all. Saying shit like "Well they can change their settings so that they don't see the abuse" isn't going to wash with me. What a fucking thing to say. They're basically saying that it's ok for the abuse to be out there in the first place and that the victims should be doing what they can to hide it from view. No fucking way. It's the companies responsibility to make sure that anyone caught using their platform for spreading online abuse of any sort is dealt with.
    I really fucking hope that the police find every single one of the abusers and chuck them in the dirtiest cell they can find in the worst prison possible. It's times like this when I give thought to whether the death penalty should be brought back.
    This needs to stop. Government needs to do more, governing bodies for football need to do more, social media companies certainly need to do more, the police need to do more.

    I also have no time whatsoever for the fucking idiots who were rioting in the streets PRE-game (and probably post game too). Why would you try and storm the stadium to try and gain access when you've not got a ticket? What are you hoping to achieve? Watching the game? I think not. You're not going to have a seat so what are you going to do?
    Countless videos of England fans trashing fanzones, trashing outdoors seating areas for pubs and restaurants. Why? Do people not realise that in Covid times outdoor seating areas are essential for these businesses to actually make a living? Many businesses int he hospitality sector have spent a heck of a lot of money to improve their utdoor seating, make them covid-safe, expeand capacity, only for these yobs to come along and trash it all. I just don't get it. What's the mindset of these epeople? Why do they do it? Especially hours before the game has even begun. And don't nobody tell me "Oh well they're all pissed and drunk off their faces". I've been absolutely obliterated off my face watchign the football plenty of times and never once have I ever had the urge to launch some tables and chairs around a beer garden. There is no excuse and it's a disgrace.
    and I'm fully aware that every nation has its contingent of idiot fans, but English fans are right up there with the absolute worst when it comes to anti-social behaviour on matchdays. I remember similar scenes happening out in France at the last Euros.
    Last edited by Tommy Thunder; 07-13-2021 at 07:53 AM.

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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Kane had some great passes in the first half, but I think the Italians just did a really strong job of shutting him and Sterling out of the game in the second. We could barely string two passes together without an interception.
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    Kane had some great passes in the first half, but I think the Italians just did a really strong job of shutting him and Sterling out of the game in the second. We could barely string two passes together without an interception.
    He was having to play very deep to see the ball. Something which I know he likes to do, but while it works well within the Spurs setup it's not something that's worked anywhere near as effectively when he does it for England and he tends to go missing in games when he tires to do it. When he abandoned that and played as the #9 he should be against Ukraine low and behold he had more chances and scored 2 goals.
    But you are correct; Italy did a great job of shutting down all of Englands creative avenues.

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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    thank fuck i'm still alive after that. this heavy drinking business has got to stop. condolences go out to most people here who wanted England to win.

    England played ok in the first half - Italy were definitely shocked at conceding so quickly but I don't think England took full advantage of it. It's like they became more cautious as the game went on when they really needed to go full throttle on Italy when they had the chance. Italy deserved to win the game overall for me and you felt they'd eventually get a goal to get back into the game.

    Southgate is alright and his tactics were pretty good. He'd obviously sussed that the Italians were weak on the wings and changed formation for that. Unfortunately, the players just couldn't keep to their jobs or ended up getting bullied in the middle of the park. Declan Rice is no good for this sort of game and it befuddles me as to why he started. He's been a weak point in England's team for me and he got overrun in midfield eventually which meant Phillips struggled too. Kane ended up playing a shitty style between being deep and wide whilst Sterling ended up being the guy who had to hold the ball up... when that should be someone else's job. The substitutions were a little baffling but I still don't understand how a player in red hot form (Sancho) is being kept out of the squad. Loyalty to players perhaps but England's chances of winning that game drastic go UP if Rice does not start. He must've been part of Operation Bitter Ireland by switching allegiances and sabotaging the English!

    Saka taking the last spotkick was ridiculous but everyone is going to have to potentially take one. It's either that one or take a sudden death kick for him so either way he's going to end up with a mentally heavy penalty regardless. Have to feel for Pickford as he tried his best throughout the tournament but Donnarumma also happens to exist so. He deserves player of the tourney easily imo.

    England are still raw and will get better after this. Definitely one to keep an eye on for the next few tournaments though I worry France, Germany, Portugal are all going to start feeling like they have something to prove now. The team is very likable though I'd say Southgate lost me a bit with bullshit WW2 rhetoric facing the Germans.

    Fan riots and online behaviour - enough has been said. When your PM, Home Secretary etc all enable clowns like that, what can you do? They will deflect blame, people will be outraged that these footballers and fans dare say such a thing about such good, kind-hearted people but it's true. Got a Home Sec that is morally bankrupt and the England football team are essentially the official opposition. It's all just disgraceful and the worst part is that people knew this would happen. It's unfortunate given post game commentary saying they were proud of the penalty takers and they needed to be praised etc.

    Can't complain, won an Italy top and free weed. If only I'd have taken my own advice to put the house on Italy pre-tournament. Have to laugh at whoever thinks Chiellini on Saka was a red Can't believe I've seen a fishing/bait image post here in 2021

    It was nice of Bonucci to score in the 67th minute in homage to Ed and I's discussion about 1967. I suppose beating Italians in European finals isn't for everyone.

    My favourite image Tommy would be Roberto Mancini sitting on the plane home with a Scottish paper depicting him as Wallace and the Trophy in the next seat to him
    Last edited by Shake; 07-13-2021 at 06:49 AM.


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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shake View Post
    Can't complain, won an Italy top and free weed. If only I'd have taken my own advice to put the house on Italy pre-tournament. Have to laugh at whoever thinks Chiellini on Saka was a red Can't believe I've seen a fishing/bait image post here in 2021
    Sorry, I couldn't resist
    And yes, I saw the outcries for it to be a red but it was just desperation really. It's a firm, solid yellow, nothing more. He wasn't the last man and it was just a superb tactical foul at the end of the day. Chiellini's experience at its best.

    My favourite image Tommy would be Roberto Mancini sitting on the plane home with a Scottish paper depicting him as Wallace and the Trophy in the next seat to him
    Oh my goodness, thanks for drawing my attention to this one! I see the Scotish newspaper 'The National' (paper that supports independence) posted a great front page before the game too with Mancini's face superimposed onto Mel Gibson as Wallace in Braveheart with the headline 'Final Hope'. Brilliant!

    It's all in jest of course, just a bit of sporting banter

    My honest opinion is that this England team is super young and super talented and I have no doubt that they'll be in the conversation as serious contenders to win the Euros/WC for the next few tournaments, and I wouldn't put it past them actually winning one either. The raw talent is there for it to happen.
    It could (and perhaps should) have been this one, but they were unfortunately beaten by a tactically superior team.

  11. #391
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    I ain't reading everyone's comments, but the performer of the match for me was the referee, didn't fall for anyone's bullshit really, and didn't have qualms with any calls that I can think of off the top of my head. 10/10 from me.

    Also had money on Italy, so happy for that penalty win, also happy we don't have to deal with insufferable smug England fans until next year's World Cup.

    I think it's fair to question many of Southgate's decisions, but I think on the balance he got most of them right(results aside, even) minus Saka taking that fifth penalty, will always wonder how those internal conversations went.

    Favorite part of the whole tournament was watching Italy games, and Chiellini just smiling the whole damn time, dude just looked absolutely thrilled to be there.

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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimea View Post
    I ain't reading everyone's comments, but the performer of the match for me was the referee, didn't fall for anyone's bullshit really, and didn't have qualms with any calls that I can think of off the top of my head. 10/10 from me.

    Also had money on Italy, so happy for that penalty win, also happy we don't have to deal with insufferable smug England fans until next year's World Cup.

    I think it's fair to question many of Southgate's decisions, but I think on the balance he got most of them right(results aside, even) minus Saka taking that fifth penalty, will always wonder how those internal conversations went.

    Favorite part of the whole tournament was watching Italy games, and Chiellini just smiling the whole damn time, dude just looked absolutely thrilled to be there.
    I couldn't agree more with you about the referee, I think he had a great game. We could easily have seen more yellow cards and possibly even reds with a more rash referee in charge (as we've seen in the past) that would have ruined the game. He kept calm throughout and I can't quesiton any decisions made either.
    The overall standard of refereeing at this tournament has been the best I can remember at a major tournament in my lifetime. The standard of the use of VAR has been by far the best I've seen to date too.

    Totally agreed with you on Chiellini too, the man was just having the time of his life out there. I'll never forget how happy and jokey he was during the coin toss for the penalties vs Spain, pushing Alba around (in a joking manner) hugging him and picking him up etc. Brilliant to see.
    I don't know if he'll continue with Italy after this tournament (it would certainly be a high note to retire on), he's certainly still playing well enough for now at least. I think it's possible he'll make it to the World Cup given that it's only next year. He'll be 38 by the time the WC rolls around but he looks in excellent shape still. Him and Bonucci will be a tough act to follow as a CB pairing when both call time on their International careers. I don't doubt Mancini for one second when he claims that they're the best CB pairing in world football.

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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    The fact that there aren't controversial decisions still being talked about it very telling. And overlooked by the media. He did a great job. The Jorginho "tackle" was definitely worth a red card shout but i get why it was just a yellow.
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    Re: Euro 2021 Discussion Thread

    Even I thought the Chiellini grab on Saka was fantastic. One of the best take one for the team bookings ever. I'd have no problems with my defender doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder
    England were excellent for most of the first half but then they literally fell off a cliff.
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