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Thread: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    London Mayor results apparently very tight. Khan still expected to win, but the fact it is much closer than anyone expected is telling. I didn't vote because 1) I forgot and 2) I expected an easy Khan win regardless. The fact Bailey said some of the dumb things he has said and is still coming out with more support than anyone predicted is quite something.
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    London Mayor results apparently very tight. Khan still expected to win, but the fact it is much closer than anyone expected is telling. I didn't vote because 1) I forgot and 2) I expected an easy Khan win regardless. The fact Bailey said some of the dumb things he has said and is still coming out with more support than anyone predicted is quite something.
    Corbyn's fault as well mate.

    Not looked at the results but are there candidates in the field more likely to take away from Khan than Bailey whilst less candidates in the field likely to take away from Bailey?

    Aside from that, there's a serious problem going on when working class people are voting conservative. Starmer has fucked this so badly with his shitty photo ops, flag waving, inauthentic bullshit. Khan going to win though but won't cover anything up.


    Scottish elections will either be SNP majority or SNP + Green coalition. Either way, it's another mandate for an indyref and I can't see Boris holding out on his stance forever. Tories getting rejected in the constituency vote once again.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Literally no one is blaming Corbyn. Starmer has taken responsibility. Of course those on the far left of the Labour party are going to try to use this as a reason to pressure Starmer out and repeat the cycle, but he will be fine for now. That said, I think he does need to start taking more risks and playing it less safe, he could take some of the Corbyn-era ideas and policies and make them more palatable.

    This is anecdotal but I've spoken with plenty of working class people in London and hardly any support Khan. I would say in general, the feeling across the Country is that the majority of the people are happy with how things are. Not perfect, not without room for improvement, but good isn't the enemy of best, and better to vote for the devil you know than the devil you don't.

    The Scottish independence question is definitely the biggest political issue in the UK right now. Whilst I do get the argument for Scots wanting independence, it would likely be economically calamitous for them and politically calamitous for the whole UK. The UK is still a serious player in the world, even outside the EU, breaking up the Union would have massive repercussions on that.
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    One short of a majority and the unionists are playing it as a failure. SNP gained a Tory seat and got 1 short of a majority in a system that is designed to make it really difficult to achieve. Greens had a brilliant showing too but that Independent Green party has clearly confused some people and cost the Greens an additional 2 seats on the list vote. I look forward to Boris Johnson trying to stop indyref2 and I look forward to Douglas Ross being a floundering fuck on a weekly basis.



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    Literally no one is blaming Corbyn. Starmer has taken responsibility. Of course those on the far left of the Labour party are going to try to use this as a reason to pressure Starmer out and repeat the cycle, but he will be fine for now. That said, I think he does need to start taking more risks and playing it less safe, he could take some of the Corbyn-era ideas and policies and make them more palatable.

    This is anecdotal but I've spoken with plenty of working class people in London and hardly any support Khan. I would say in general, the feeling across the Country is that the majority of the people are happy with how things are. Not perfect, not without room for improvement, but good isn't the enemy of best, and better to vote for the devil you know than the devil you don't.

    The Scottish independence question is definitely the biggest political issue in the UK right now. Whilst I do get the argument for Scots wanting independence, it would likely be economically calamitous for them and politically calamitous for the whole UK. The UK is still a serious player in the world, even outside the EU, breaking up the Union would have massive repercussions on that.
    If you're going to use the word literally in a snide retort to what is a joke, you might want to use it correctly. 'Literally' there are people blaming Corbyn. 'Starmer has taken responsibility' - has he? What responsibility has he taken? He said he takes full responsibility but I only see others being punished and scapegoated in the party. He has thrust the blame onto Rayner for the most part and now there are people advising Starmer to reform the party because the left element is to blame. How about Starmer comes out and takes actual responsibility? Just because he said he takes the responsibility doesn't mean he is showing anything that he will. Starmer isn't taking Corbyn ideas when he's got Peter Mandelson hovering around him. Coincidentally, Mandelson being one of the people who has blamed Corbyn.

    Are you saying people are voting Khan because he is status quo but don't actually support him or what? He is the devil you know for Londoners right? All I see is that the Conservatives are only winning elections in England which tells me they have a connection to English voters that they don't with Welsh and Scottish. There's a clear difference between the English working class vote and elsewhere's working class vote for the most part. It's just mental that somehow Labour are becoming the party of the elite down south

    As for independence, supporters of it do not give a shit about the political implications for the whole of UK on the world stage. They, for the most part, don't carry a British/UK identity and view themselves as primarily Scottish. No Independence supporter or even person on the fence is reconsidering their decision at being told that. It's obvious there would be political and economic consequences but the fact is that those consequences seem more appealing to the indy supporter than being stuck in a 'consensual' union that feels like you're being held on a leash. We should reserve the right to decide whether or not we still 'consent' to the union whenever the question becomes more than just an elephant in the room and regardless of pointless time deadlines (once in a generation).

    It doesn't help that it comes across like a scare tactic for unionists to use too. Alot of the same unionists like to complain about Scotland being a drain on the rUK too when it suits them. It doesn't help when you have Westminster politicians 'telling' us what to do and what to think. There is just such a clear cultural difference between the nations of the Union that it's actually so pointless carrying on as one. The Tories are never winning up here but they are, evidently, on their way to becoming the one party state of England. Same could be said for SNP up here which, again, just highlights the stark difference.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldwin View Post
    One short of a majority and the unionists are playing it as a failure. SNP gained a Tory seat and got 1 short of a majority in a system that is designed to make it really difficult to achieve. Greens had a brilliant showing too but that Independent Green party has clearly confused some people and cost the Greens an additional 2 seats on the list vote. I look forward to Boris Johnson trying to stop indyref2 and I look forward to Douglas Ross being a floundering fuck on a weekly basis.
    Of course they are, the BBC's punditry has been awful and the way this is being framed is hilarious. Sturgeon wins 9k+ majority over Sarwar and she is 'holding on' but Tories win 7k+ majority in Hartlepool and it's a 'romp'. I've noticed news outlets trying their best to keep the Lib Dems relevant with showing their 4 seats on a graphic but not the Greens' 8? It is embarrassing.

    Have to laugh at Sarwar and Ian Murray too - they think Labour have somehow 'won' in this election. lol. Labour are dead and have killed themselves again now we know, for sure, that they are helping the Tories with voting.

    This is a pro independence majority. You can't take the result any other way. SNP gained a seat. The Greens gained seats. It's obvious that the unionist vote has failed and if this was just a FPTP system then the SNP would have an insane majority. Imagine trying to paint this election as a loss for the SNP and the independence movement.

    I also love that the Lib Dems have lost their proper party status in the parliament too. They really haven't done anything to win Scottish people back since Cleggmania.

    It's absolutely no wonder the SNP get a lot of votes when they can win an election pretty handily and yet all the rUK parties are trying to spin a different picture. Disingenuous fucks. None of them are ever going to win an election here again and if the SNP list votes were carried over to the Green Party? Holy shit the pro-indy majority would have been even bigger.

    There's not a unionist politician in Scotland who has any sort of chance at clawing this back.
    Last edited by Shake Republic; 05-09-2021 at 07:56 AM.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I don't give a shit about the economic implications for the rest of the UK. Scotland is politically incompatible with the rest of the UK as demonstrated by the fact that they haven't voted in line with the winning party since Tony Blair. Or in other words, three elections in 40 years.

    Neither the Tories nor Labour ever have a chance of winning Scotland for a generation.

    Scotland will be fine on its own. There will be teething issues initially, obviously, but much smaller countries manage just fine. I want them out of the claws of a broken system in the UK.

    Unfortunately as long as people keep the Tory majority in Parliament, there's no incentive for them to cave and give a second referendum. They can freely dismiss Scotland because: a) the appeal for Scottish independence is peaceful; b) they don't lose anything while Scotland votes SNP, as long as those votes don't go to Labour.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    If you're going to use the word literally in a snide retort to what is a joke, you might want to use it correctly. 'Literally' there are people blaming Corbyn. 'Starmer has taken responsibility' - has he? What responsibility has he taken? He said he takes full responsibility but I only see others being punished and scapegoated in the party. He has thrust the blame onto Rayner for the most part and now there are people advising Starmer to reform the party because the left element is to blame. How about Starmer comes out and takes actual responsibility? Just because he said he takes the responsibility doesn't mean he is showing anything that he will. Starmer isn't taking Corbyn ideas when he's got Peter Mandelson hovering around him. Coincidentally, Mandelson being one of the people who has blamed Corbyn.

    Are you saying people are voting Khan because he is status quo but don't actually support him or what? He is the devil you know for Londoners right? All I see is that the Conservatives are only winning elections in England which tells me they have a connection to English voters that they don't with Welsh and Scottish. There's a clear difference between the English working class vote and elsewhere's working class vote for the most part. It's just mental that somehow Labour are becoming the party of the elite down south

    As for independence, supporters of it do not give a shit about the political implications for the whole of UK on the world stage. They, for the most part, don't carry a British/UK identity and view themselves as primarily Scottish. No Independence supporter or even person on the fence is reconsidering their decision at being told that. It's obvious there would be political and economic consequences but the fact is that those consequences seem more appealing to the indy supporter than being stuck in a 'consensual' union that feels like you're being held on a leash. We should reserve the right to decide whether or not we still 'consent' to the union whenever the question becomes more than just an elephant in the room and regardless of pointless time deadlines (once in a generation).

    It doesn't help that it comes across like a scare tactic for unionists to use too. Alot of the same unionists like to complain about Scotland being a drain on the rUK too when it suits them. It doesn't help when you have Westminster politicians 'telling' us what to do and what to think. There is just such a clear cultural difference between the nations of the Union that it's actually so pointless carrying on as one. The Tories are never winning up here but they are, evidently, on their way to becoming the one party state of England. Same could be said for SNP up here which, again, just highlights the stark difference.
    Fair enough on the first point.

    I would agree with the majority of what you say actually. The Cons are a very English-centric party. Even more than that, very South-Eastern English. The reality is that even in England alone there is a massive disparity between London/South East and the rest of the country. The South East is an economic powerhouse - London is one of the richest cities in the world and one of the biggest economic hubs out there, it's where all the major airports and docks are and it's got the links direct into mainland Europe. Even if you remove Scotland and Wales from the picture, the South East still heavily subsidises the rest of England. Being a Southerner that's great for me, but obviously the gap is not a good thing for the country or Union and I am very much in favour of developing the rest of the country to spread the wealth.

    My comment on Khan was purely anecdotal, I'm not sure what conclusions to draw on how close the race in London was. Apparently voter turnout was quite low. I like Khan and would have voted for him if I had remembered to vote. One criticism I hear a lot is that his green policies are making London a lot more expensive and difficult to drive in.

    Labour are in a real problem. They are trying to represent 2 very different groups at the same time and those 2 groups are not that close together. The old school, trade union labour areas in the North are actually socially very conservative. The Southern Labour areas obviously are very liberal, but it's easy to be liberal when you live in a city like London. I would love to see both them and the Cons split into 2 parties apiece, but that isn't happening.

    I see some mumblings of Andy Burnham potentially as next Labour leader. I think that would be a very interesting move, he probably has as good of a chance as appealing to both the North and the South as anyone in the red camp.

    But yes the Scotland question is the biggest political question in the UK right now. I am sure most pro-indy Scots don't care about the consequences, the price for self-determination is worth paying. Similar argument for Brexit. It will have to be answered again soon, albeit probably not in the next 2 years. Most reports seem to indicate it'll be more in the 3-4 time frame for a new referendum. I do wonder if there is a big 'silent majority' there may be in favour of the Union.

    Even the mindset behind the push for independence shows a massive different between Scotland and England. England has always had big ideas, big ambitions and wanted to be/has been a big player in the world politically, economically, and militarily. The old 'punching above it's weight' metaphor and all that. Scotland is a small country with a small population, and happy to be a small country that looks after it's own and minds its own business. I'm not saying that as an insult, but I think that's a fair assessment.
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I'm willing to take the short term shit for the long term gain of independence and I think that the Scottish Government need to be clearer with people about it in all honesty. I want my wee one to grow up in a fairer country. The Union is dead and no Team UK, no lovebombing from Boris, Gove or big Jacob, nothing is going to change that, not in the immediate future. The tactical voting of unionists still didn't prevent the SNP winning and actually the SNP took seats.



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Not nice what is happening in Pollokshields today.

    Police probably wouldn't be so bothered if it was Rangers fans...


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    Not nice what is happening in Pollokshields today.

    Police probably wouldn't be so bothered if it was Rangers fans...
    Happy the work of the community worked wonders here and they got released. I was near the area today but couldn't have gone with the wee one. Based on what Nicola Sturgeon said earlier, when she spoke to UK Gov they didn't seem to give a flying fuck about the situation. I'm very sorry Priti Patel but you've very likely just given Scotland more ammunition for independence. Fuck the Tories



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    What's going on up there?

    Drakeford has shuffled his pack down here so will need to see where that one goes given how well the previous guys did. Won't mean a lot though in fairness :/
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Haven't seen the full story so correct me if I'm wrong, but seems like 2 Indian guys suspected of being in the country illegally were taken into custody by immigration officers? What would be different if this was Scottish Govt rule? Definitely a ridiculous own goal but the UK Govt either way
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread



    It's not about what if ScotGov did this because it simply wouldn't have done it.



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    No what I meant was, what would they have done differently? What would be Scottish immigration policy? Definitely seems like a dumb move on the Home Office part, and if they are refugees then they should absolutely be given shelter. But if they aren't, then what?
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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    I don't think they'd round people up in vans and treat them like animals for starters. To drive into very well known diverse community in Glasgow and commit a raid like this on this day is a pretty clear sign of hostility. The men are Sikh and obviously it has no religious bearing on them but Sikhs are well known to be quite peaceful and welcoming to other cultures. edit: should add that actually i haven't seen it confirmed if Sikh or not.

    I would think or hope Scot Gov would approach the situation with a little more humility and critical thinking. We can do better than whatever the fuck that was.
    Last edited by Shake Republic; 05-13-2021 at 04:39 PM.


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    There is a discussion paper published in 2018 (not sure if updated now Brexit has happened) that gives a sort of proposal for how immigration would work in Scotland and also stresses how important it is to the Scottish economy. I'm sure there was something about a Scottish visa proposal last year too.

    The issue here is the lack of any compassion/humanity from the UK Government. There was a very apt sign that was posted above the protest saying "If this is TeamUK We Reject It" which I'm sure is the opposite that the Tories want to be doing when we're due to be 'lovebombed' by them



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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Dominic Cummings with pipe bombs today


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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    Dominic Cummings with pipe bombs today
    All the shade thrown at Matt Hancock.

    Just a shame it's this toerag doing it.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    “I'm going to get Chris Whitty to inject me with it live on television, to show there's nothing to be afraid of”

    If someone suggested that line for an episode of The Thick Of It, it’d be rejected for being too far fetched. Yet I can absolutely picture those words coming out of Boris mouth.

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    Re: The UK and Ireland Politics Thread

    Funnily enough, politics becoming too far-fetched is the exact reason Armando Iannucci gave for deciding to end The Thick Of It.


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