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Thread: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Yeah this is still a lot of fun, and I'd agree with Shock its probably one of the best comedy matches ever. Certainly funnier than anything from Chikara, for example.

    Evans in particular is an underrated comedy guy and he's a good heel foil for this match. Finish was smart and actually added some fuel to a future match you'd want to see.

    Mark - the slow-mo stuff is an Ebetaro trademark, so I imagine that was all planned beforehand.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    I think this may have been one of the first slo-mo spots before it's peak in the early-mid 2010's, or at least in NA if Ebetaroh was doing it in Japan already

    Yeah, it's still an all time great comedy match. That'd be an interesting list idea one day, funniest wrestling matches.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback



    For what it’s worth, this is probably my favourite comedy match and I’ve not even seen the full thing, just this clip.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post


    For what it’s worth, this is probably my favourite comedy match and I’ve not even seen the full thing, just this clip.
    Best part of the match, the rest was a huge let down

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Glory By Honor V Night 2
    ROH World Championship
    Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA



    Bah gawd, it's time for a daddy of ROH throwbacks! The IWC's favourite match of 2006 ("Daniel Bryan wrestles on the internet, King!"), consistently high-ranked in all time best ROH and Bryan Danielson matches. It's 2006 and WWE's shit, TNA isn't cutting it as the alternative. The hype surrounding this made me purchase my first ROH DVD and turned me and many others into a fan. Fuck me, I'm now older than both these guys were in this match. I've definitely seen this more than once, but we'll see if it holds up nearly 14 years later.

    The big story going into this is American Dragon's injured right shoulder, which is in desperate need of surgery, but he's fighting through it until he drops the belt. It won't affect his career as much as concussions did and is probably preferable to a torn retina, but still a big deal at the time. Unfortunately, KENTA has been undefeated since debuting against Low Ki nearly a year ago, so can be considered the biggest threat to dethrone him in this dream match. KENTA also has his American protege Davey Richards ('member him?) in his corner. A trainee Rhett Titus can be spotted at ringside too.

    Right from the get-go, KENTA teases kicking his shoulder out of his shoulder. But does opt for bitch-slapping Dragon instead of a clean break on the ropes. Dragon's form of retaliation is a bitch slap back, then going after KENTA's shoulder and a cheeky knee to the face to show he ain't taking his shit. But KENTA forces him to when he does land a kick to the shoulder, Dragon retreating out the ring. Even when they're just feeling each other out, it's nice and aggressive work, and it's interesting seeing Dragon nervous. You can see his brain ticking away, thinking about how to make every move count to survive. He gets a streak of offence that makes him too confident, so KENTA punishes him for a plancha attempt with kicking the shoulder and putting the heat on him for a while. It's a shoot injury and KENTA's kicks are nasty, so it's pretty crazy Dragon's willing to go through this.

    Dragon turns the momentum on his side eventually and most of his offence is with his left arm. In a fun improv, Dragon slips during the Surfboard Stretch (let's pretend it's his injury) to some "You Fucked Up!" chants. He then goes "I didn't fuck up." Double stomp on KENTA's knees. "I don't EVER fuck up!" It's just one of many moments that made ROH champ Danielson one of the best characters and title runs. Now in control, Dragon's smart idea is to go after the leg KENTA's been kicking his bad shoulder with. He's still a heelish tweener at this time, so uses the ropes during a Figure Four, which KENTA is pointing out and yelling at referee Todd Sinclair who I guess was meant to ignore him because of the language barrier, but it was so obvious what KENTA meant. It's only when Sinclair sees the ropes bouncing he susses it out. Weird but unintentionally funny spot.

    It's solid back-and-forth for a while, but it's once they both counter big aerial moves from each other that this goes into the next level. Quality sequence exchanging strikes, Dragon throwing anything but his bad arm. The fight and urgency is on. Dragon finally takes a risk that pays off with his trademark springboard dive into the crowd. Always liked that little touch of KENTA screaming "Tap out!" in English during the Fujiwara Armbar. I think it was the only time he spoke it up until this point except for beating Nakamura to the "Me no speak Engrish" joke earlier that year.

    Probably one of the best and most memorable ROH nearfalls for me is KENTA catching Dragon from the top rope to hit the Go 2 Sleep, only for Dragon to get the rope break at the last possible second. The eruption that follows is great, the crowd on their feet because with this finisher not having been survived before in ROH and Dragon's injury, it probably was believable they'd put the belt on KENTA here. They'd give it to Takeshi Morishima in a few months, so politically it could've been possible. I don't know what the criteria back then was for a TKO in ROH, but KENTA was unresponsive for a while to the MMA elbows. His "HE'S ALIIIIVE" moment as he yells through powering out of it to his feet gets an awesome sustained pop. But Dragon still has him trapped and attempts a Cattle Mutilation, which KENTA reverses into a rollup that I'm not sure this specific counter had been done before this match. It was KENTA's last hurrah though. He was already defeated once his arms were locked as Dragon keeps reversing everything back into a Cattle Mutilation, forcing the tapout. One of only two jobs that I can recall KENTA doing in ROH to a ROH guy. The other, Nigel McGuinness in his reign.

    I dunno how detailed I can get about why I like this match so much, it's not necessarily certain spots that stand out to me, it's pretty intangible. It is a very workrate-based match, but it's obviously not lacking story. It's about a dominant champion having to face his biggest threat with a new, exposed weakness. And they tell this with subtleties because it's clearly a sports, not sports-entertainment, style they're working, which is just pure chemistry for that era of ROH and NOAH. And it comes off much less pretentious and formulaic than a number of ROH main events would become in trying to be this. They did a decent job at showing Dragon's face enough - he was selling the uncertainty and thought process he was meant to be going through in this battle. "Can I take another couple shots to the shoulder if it gets me in position to do this move to KENTA?" You get the feeling you're watching two intelligent athletes and Dragon had the winning tactic, he knew to just exhaust KENTA and wear him down enough so he can trap him in the Cattle Mutilation and keep him locked in there. You got the sense in the finish that KENTA wasn't necessarily tapping out from pain but because he literally couldn't find any other way out. This is why I can forgive Dragon not going back much to KENTA's leg after working on it for a bit. I can buy that he was only doing this to weaken the kicks a bit, not to build to a leg submission.

    I'd say it's classic KENTA, but I'm sure he has other matches even in ROH that are better examples of his work. It's definitely classic Bryan Danielson. It's easily one of the matches that defines what ROH was supposed to be during its reign as the cult alternative to WWE and TNA.
    Last edited by Marketh; 03-31-2020 at 11:18 PM.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Great review!! This match is nuts. Have you ever seen their other ROH match that was an extra on a dvd? Its really good too.

    Bryan in ROH was insane and fans who only know his WWE work are still missing out(as crazy as that sounds)

    Just curious since your reviews are really good. Any chance at a later date, youd dip into roh 2016 to present. Since its prety much new to you( i remember you stopped watching around 2016)
    Last edited by indyfan; 03-31-2020 at 11:02 PM.
    ROH 2003 - end of 2008 = best years of wrestling ever

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Kenta vs Bryan is brilliant. In most other people's career it would be their best match, but this isn't even Bryan's best match of this reign.

    That near fall off the cattle mutilation roll up was so good.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Kenta vs Bryan is brilliant. In most other people's career it would be their best match, but this isn't even Bryan's best match of this reign.
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    I believe this topped the poll for WC's Greatest Daniel Bryan match without actually finishing 1st on anyone's list.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Incredible match, still holds up as a classic. The way Danielson sells that first shot to the shoulder is so great, and it's a masterful performance all round. Top notch injury selling, from his reactions to things to way he has to mix up his strikes to compensate. Big crowd dive spot is still great to watch. KENTA brings the stiffness and strategy and holds up his end but really it's a Danielson tour-de-force.

    Just think, we're in agreement this isn't Danielson's best match, but how many other great wrestlers over the years haven't had a match this good? Hell, I'd say this was a better match than anything I've seen over the last 5 years.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    Incredible match, still holds up as a classic. The way Danielson sells that first shot to the shoulder is so great, and it's a masterful performance all round. Top notch injury selling, from his reactions to things to way he has to mix up his strikes to compensate. Big crowd dive spot is still great to watch. KENTA brings the stiffness and strategy and holds up his end but really it's a Danielson tour-de-force.

    Just think, we're in agreement this isn't Danielson's best match, but how many other great wrestlers over the years haven't had a match this good? Hell, I'd say this was a better match than anything I've seen over the last 5 years.
    the only better Danielson match is vs Strong at Vendetta 2005
    ROH 2003 - end of 2008 = best years of wrestling ever

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    I prefer the KENTA match but they're both in his Top 10.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    I'd put Strong, Morishima, Joe (from 2004) and at least two Nigel matches above the KENTA match. Probably a few others too. That's not a knock on the KENTA match at all. Bryan is just ridiculous

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I'd put Strong, Morishima, Joe (from 2004) and at least two Nigel matches above the KENTA match. Probably a few others too. That's not a knock on the KENTA match at all. Bryan is just ridiculous

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    Funny, throw in the Aries 2/3 falls match and I think you reeled off all the ones I had in mind.

    This is Bryan's GOAT case - there are guy's who's BEST match might be better than his best. But when you start looking at their 3rd best vs his 3rd best, 5th best vs 5th best, 10th best vs 10th best...... Danielson's resume is ridiculously full of high end work and has been for the better part of 20 years now.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    Funny, throw in the Aries 2/3 falls match and I think you reeled off all the ones I had in mind.

    This is Bryan's GOAT case - there are guy's who's BEST match might be better than his best. But when you start looking at their 3rd best vs his 3rd best, 5th best vs 5th best, 10th best vs 10th best...... Danielson's resume is ridiculously full of high end work and has been for the better part of 20 years now.

    I haven't watched that 2/3 falls match in so long. Im not sure i could at 73 minutes. I thinks that why i prefer their other matches. I love the one they had in 09 on Daneilsons farewell tour.

    Even the final whatever amount it ended up being(10 minutes?) it is in the SOTF 04 match when its down to Aries vs Danielson was also really epic
    ROH 2003 - end of 2008 = best years of wrestling ever

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post

    Just curious since your reviews are really good. Any chance at a later date, youd dip into roh 2016 to present. Since its prety much new to you( i remember you stopped watching around 2016)
    Highly unlikely. It just doesn't look appealing to me.

    This isn't aimed at you, but just something I've meant to say: I don't plan on this thread just being a wankfest over how great ROH used to be. If I find anything on their YouTube channel that I didn't like from back in the day, I'll be revisiting those too. At the moment, I'm just trying to find the best stuff without repeating workers and years.


    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon
    Incredible match, still holds up as a classic. The way Danielson sells that first shot to the shoulder is so great, and it's a masterful performance all round. Top notch injury selling, from his reactions to things to way he has to mix up his strikes to compensate. Big crowd dive spot is still great to watch. KENTA brings the stiffness and strategy and holds up his end but really it's a Danielson tour-de-force.

    Just think, we're in agreement this isn't Danielson's best match, but how many other great wrestlers over the years haven't had a match this good? Hell, I'd say this was a better match than anything I've seen over the last 5 years.
    I'd need someone to put a list of MOTYCs in front of my face, but there's a 95% chance I'd agree.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Fair enough. Keep 'em coming anyhow.

    They just put up Steen vs Black from Salvation.
    ROH 2003 - end of 2008 = best years of wrestling ever

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    In typical ROH social media fashion, it turns out not all Throwback Thursday matches have been included in their playlist, so a search for the term on their YouTube channel has revealed some more options I want to revisit, including a favourite of mine from 2011.


    3rd Anniversary
    CM Punk vs. Alex Shelley



    Never seen this match before, so I have no insight into any background. Apparently Punk has just turned face and saved Ricky Steamboat from an attack from Generation Next, but in the time since then, Shelley's been kicked out of Generation Next after losing the blowoff in a Second City Saints feud. So were both factions heels? I dunno, I'm kinda useless for ROH's timeline pre-'06/07. I know of significant events and matches, but not so much the order they happened in.

    There was a discussion here not along ago about Alex Shelley. I don't think I was alone in this experience, of believing I've always had potential to be a fan of his, but something just didn't click about him. In the mid-2000s, he's technically good, very athletic and certainly charismatic, but I could never bring myself to actually care that much about him or his matches. I think the reason is just that there's plenty other guys around this time that can do what he does better.

    You wouldn't think these two were leaders in a big faction feud before this match - the first few minutes are just some tension-free chain wrestling sequences with breaks for some mild applause. Someone heckles with a long "BORIIIIIING" chant, commentary talks all over Punk's comeback. Great. Punk does hit a Hammerlock Suplex at one point, which I think is a cool move, but not one I'd bother pointing out if I was really into this match. Shelley does a nice counter to a top rope Crossbody by taking a knee to let Punk land straight on it. Always a cool spot. Shelley's actual heat work following this, attacking Punk's ribs, is pretty unnoteworthy and involves the same Abdominal Stretch resthold twice. The crowd is trying to get into this and Punk's trying to rile them up and play to them, but it feels a bit like everyone's trying to force some enthusiasm into this.

    I can't tell if it's the way Shelley's trying to sell or if he was ill during this, but it feels like he's going at half-speed and he's pretty expressionless, not showing much urgency. The crowd finally does get lively in the last minute or so, but then it's over once Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice. It was a match, it was fine. I can't think of much to say other than, again, shouldn't there have been much more heat between two feuding faction leaders? It's a David Mitchell match, it's so unnoteworthy that in itself becomes noteworthy. I did say that Shelley has never clicked entirely for me, but I know a match with Punk in this era of ROH is capable of being so much better than this. But he really did suck the little energy out of the match. My only theory I have to defend him, based on the backstory from commentary, is that Shelley is floating around unsure what to do with himself post-Generation Next, with no allies and maybe that's why he's underwhelming here. But that just feels like clutching at straws to me. I've seen praise for this match before, so I don't want to sound like I'm shitting on indyfan's recommendation - apparently others have gotten something out of this match that I'm just not seeing at all.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    I totally agree on your thoughts on Shelley. Everything suggests that I should love him as a wrestler. Decent in ring, great talker, charismatic. Yet when his singles matches begin, it rarely clicks for me.

    I'm not sure if it's because he's always felt like the Jannetty of his tag teams. Certainly compared to Aries, I don't think Shelley come close. But I don't think he's as good as Sabin either.

    This match is fine, but I don't think it's particularly memorable or something I'd want to revisit.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    Quote Originally Posted by Marketh View Post
    Never seen this match before, so I have no insight into any background. Apparently Punk has just turned face and saved Ricky Steamboat from an attack from Generation Next, but in the time since then, Shelley's been kicked out of Generation Next after losing the blowoff in a Second City Saints feud. So were both factions heels? I dunno, I'm kinda useless for ROH's timeline pre-'06/07. I know of significant events and matches, but not so much the order they happened in.
    The Second City Saints had been faces since Punk turned face at Reborn Completion back in mid 2004. I imagine they were mostly turned face because ROH had just put together The Rottweilers, Generation Next, and The Embassy, so they really needed to make some faces to combat these new heels.

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    Re: ROH Revisited: A Totally Non-Corona Related Marketh Reviews Comeback

    The reality is that Shelley was never as good as a lot of people thought he was. He was a good worker for sure, but never a great one. He did a lot of things well but nothing exceptional.

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