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Thread: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

  1. #21
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Yeah the Kannelis storyline sounds horrible. Sorry to say this...but that beta cuck thing sounds like something Heyman would push through Corey's ear piece. The whole angle sounds like Heyman.
    Last edited by indyfan; 09-17-2019 at 09:25 AM.
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    We can complain about the beta cuck thing, but let's be honest, the quality of Raw since SummerSlam, and even a little prior, has been way, way, WAY up.

    Also, looks like AoP is finally going to get used again. Now get my boys Mojo and Lashley back on TV. I know you guys are sleeping on Mojo, but he screams a white, charismatic Monty Brown to me.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    We can complain about the beta cuck thing, but let's be honest, the quality of Raw since SummerSlam, and even a little prior, has been way, way, WAY up.

    Also, looks like AoP is finally going to get used again. Now get my boys Mojo and Lashley back on TV. I know you guys are sleeping on Mojo, but he screams a white, charismatic Monty Brown to me.
    Mojo is cool I like him if Gronk ever comes to WWE I think he will get a push.

    Mojo for a guy his size is fast I mean speed and size is good.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    I thought Raw was great this week, lots of surprises and intrigue. KOTR match was amazing, I hope they bring it back every year. Gable really impressed me throughout, he reminds me of a young Kurt Angle. Corbin was really good too, I dont feel either way about him but his matches thr past few weeks have been stellar. A big thumbs down to the "who's the daddy" storyline, it was very unnecessary filler. Of course the Fiend is must see TV, he's the probably best character in all of wrestling right now. Very interesting timing to see some of these returns like Luke Harper and Rusev after all the "reports" of unhappiness with WWE.



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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by boomkattack View Post
    I thought Raw was great this week, lots of surprises and intrigue. KOTR match was amazing, I hope they bring it back every year. Gable really impressed me throughout, he reminds me of a young Kurt Angle. Corbin was really good too, I dont feel either way about him but his matches thr past few weeks have been stellar. A big thumbs down to the "who's the daddy" storyline, it was very unnecessary filler. Of course the Fiend is must see TV, he's the probably best character in all of wrestling right now. Very interesting timing to see some of these returns like Luke Harper and Rusev after all the "reports" of unhappiness with WWE.
    I don't think KOTR is a tournament you can have every year, would definitely deflate any prestige it possesses.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by boomkattack View Post
    I thought Raw was great this week, lots of surprises and intrigue. KOTR match was amazing, I hope they bring it back every year. Gable really impressed me throughout, he reminds me of a young Kurt Angle. Corbin was really good too, I dont feel either way about him but his matches thr past few weeks have been stellar. A big thumbs down to the "who's the daddy" storyline, it was very unnecessary filler. Of course the Fiend is must see TV, he's the probably best character in all of wrestling right now. Very interesting timing to see some of these returns like Luke Harper and Rusev after all the "reports" of unhappiness with WWE.
    What Marie isn't telling people is that....

    im the father....

    I would laugh if Maury ending up in this angle at all.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I don't think KOTR is a tournament you can have every year, would definitely deflate any prestige it possesses.
    Why not? Does the G1 Climax lack for prestige?
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Why not? Does the G1 Climax lack for prestige?
    Two tournaments that accomplish two entirely different things in two entirely different ways.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Two tournaments that accomplish two entirely different things in two entirely different ways.
    True. And you basically hit the nail on the head of the problem with the KotR. It varies in its intended purpose too much. Its the intent to get over mid-level talent? Is it to give established stars another accomplishment? Is it to have them earn a specific prize? None of that is ever consistent. What the WWE seems to be trying to accomplish with the KoTR varies as much as when they decide to hold it.

    G1 benefits from having settled parameters.

    I just don't see how the King of the Ring would be made less important or less valuable to the WWE if they actually had set parameters. The biggest value it has right now is surprise, and I'm not sure how the whole things becomes significantly less meaningful if you take that element away.
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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    True. And you basically hit the nail on the head of the problem with the KotR. It varies in its intended purpose too much. Its the intent to get over mid-level talent? Is it to give established stars another accomplishment? Is it to have them earn a specific prize? None of that is ever consistent. What the WWE seems to be trying to accomplish with the KoTR varies as much as when they decide to hold it.

    G1 benefits from having settled parameters.

    I just don't see how the King of the Ring would be made less important or less valuable to the WWE if they actually had set parameters. The biggest value it has right now is surprise, and I'm not sure how the whole things becomes significantly less meaningful if you take that element away.
    Because over the last few KOTR tournaments, the winners have been people who can fill a specific role in playing a heel King. Having that occur on a yearly basis is redundant and unsustainable. If they had to go the route of elevating a midcard talent every year with the tournament, it'll suffer as well. The first year, they'll have that guy they want to push to the top of the card. The second year, there might be another guy they feel comfortable to run the ball with. The third year? Eh, this is probably where the tournament goes down hill. We've seen it with MITB, it's not as thrilling to have a MITB holder anymore because we've had multiple MITB holders in a year, and it no longer really feels like it has elevated anyone to a higher position. It was overdone and overexposed. The KOTR feels prestigious because of the length between tournaments, it gives the winners an opportunity to further build their career over a longer period of time. That way, when they refer to the winners, you can see what became of their career more of as a whole, instead of what they accomplished in the last year.

    The Royal Rumble is able to keep its mystique because of how grand the prize is for the winner, the main event of WM. The same way the G1 has the payoff to main event WK. Ofc, the G1 also benefits that it literally uses the best wrestlers on its entire roster.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Because over the last few KOTR tournaments, the winners have been people who can fill a specific role in playing a heel King. Having that occur on a yearly basis is redundant and unsustainable. If they had to go the route of elevating a midcard talent every year with the tournament, it'll suffer as well. The first year, they'll have that guy they want to push to the top of the card. The second year, there might be another guy they feel comfortable to run the ball with. The third year? Eh, this is probably where the tournament goes down hill. We've seen it with MITB, it's not as thrilling to have a MITB holder anymore because we've had multiple MITB holders in a year, and it no longer really feels like it has elevated anyone to a higher position. It was overdone and overexposed. The KOTR feels prestigious because of the length between tournaments, it gives the winners an opportunity to further build their career over a longer period of time. That way, when they refer to the winners, you can see what became of their career more of as a whole, instead of what they accomplished in the last year.

    The Royal Rumble is able to keep its mystique because of how grand the prize is for the winner, the main event of WM. The same way the G1 has the payoff to main event WK. Ofc, the G1 also benefits that it literally uses the best wrestlers on its entire roster.
    Interesting point, and I'm not completely disagreeing.

    But the tournament can serve other purposes beyond giving them a gimmick. That's what the WWE has done for the last couple. But if that's the singular purpose, then is very limiting - works best as heel, etc. And then yeah, absolutely, you don't want it every year. But that's overlooking the way the tournament has been used over the years. Its been used to give established stars additional accomplishments, to set talent up for the next step up before a world title run, or to elevate new talent (what they could have done with Gable, and kinda still did even with his losing, though I have serious concerns about building a guy up by focusing on his lack of height). The WWE is choosing to limit its purpose to "give them a King gimmick for a few months".

    MITB is an interesting comparison, but much like the G1 is "different", so is the MITB. That one definitely suffers for being a regular thing. But it also suffers for its structure - ladder matches can be exciting, but it depends on participants. And one the briefcase is won, it creates the same dynamic almost every time, so that is the element that becomes really repetitive and limiting. Much like doing the KotR for the sole purpose of giving a wrestling a gimmick for a few months.

    I'm not sure KotR should be annual. Just that it could be, if the WWE didn't use it for the single purpose they seem to be using it for.

    I don't have fundamental concerns with Baron winning, besides it being extremely predictable. I called it from the moment it was announced, purely based on the "King Baron" wordplay being an extremely Vince thing. But it doesn't elevate a guy who was already the most used guy in the WWE and headlining multiple PPVs within the past few months. I don't imagine it will fundamentally alter his gimmick - he's still going to be arrogant, but just from a different angle.

    As for Raw, they do seem to be getting better as a whole. Curious if the ratings are going to reflect that.

    But holy fuck do I not want to see more of the Mike & Maria angle. Who in the fuck is entertained by a "Beta Cuck" besides Vince? Utter waste of Rusev's returns
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  12. #32

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    I agree with BP for the most part. For me, whether or not the tournament can have any prestige or not all comes down to how they book it. Like, if they continued to book it the same way they have been since 2015 or so, it is a mostly pointless thing to have each year. But if they switched it up, gave some faces wins every now and then, used it to have superstars break out some years and had established stars win it others, and maybe even made the finals of the KOTR a PPV main event, then yeah, it could be a more coveted prize and something worth rolling out each year.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    I'm not sure how the KOTR tournament this year can't be viewed as anything but a positive. Most episodes of Raw or SD the tournament matches were the best matches on the show, Corbin and Gable's stock is higher now than a month ago and even before the injury I thought Elias had one of his best matches against Ali as well.

    Big red flag for me with Ricochet and Rusev being used in the Maria segment. That was the 24/7 jobber crew's 15 minutes segment and a KOTR semi finalist and a returning popular wrestler were used as punchlines for a pretty dumb angle. Rusev clearly didn't get the Sasha/Revival treatment on his return, must not of signed his deal yet.

    Cesaro/Rey was neat, surprising to get a pinfall on a code red.

    Another solid night for the Fiend, but for the love of god disconnect Michael Cole's mic when he does these attacks. Nothing kills the horror vibe more than Cole screaming THE FIEND THE FIEND THE FIEND IS HERE COREY while it's going on.

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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Damn...that Rusev return was so depressing. What was it a year ago he was the most over, or at least one of the most over people in Pro Wrestling. Yet he returns here got a mild pop for his theme song and then complete and utter silence.

    Congrats WWE you Zack Ryder'd him and effectively made everyone stop caring about him. To be fair an over Rusev probably gets in the way of pushing the atrociously bad Shield guys endlessly.

    I get the feeling Heyman is even less of a Miz fan than the McMahons are.
    Last edited by ETE; 09-17-2019 at 11:19 PM.





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    Re: WWE Monday Night Raw Live Discussion - September 16, 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I'm not sure how the KOTR tournament this year can't be viewed as anything but a positive. Most episodes of Raw or SD the tournament matches were the best matches on the show, Corbin and Gable's stock is higher now than a month ago and even before the injury I thought Elias had one of his best matches against Ali as well.

    Big red flag for me with Ricochet and Rusev being used in the Maria segment. That was the 24/7 jobber crew's 15 minutes segment and a KOTR semi finalist and a returning popular wrestler were used as punchlines for a pretty dumb angle. Rusev clearly didn't get the Sasha/Revival treatment on his return, must not of signed his deal yet.

    Cesaro/Rey was neat, surprising to get a pinfall on a code red.

    Another solid night for the Fiend, but for the love of god disconnect Michael Cole's mic when he does these attacks. Nothing kills the horror vibe more than Cole screaming THE FIEND THE FIEND THE FIEND IS HERE COREY while it's going on.
    Cole’s commentary during that entire segment was atrocious, even when Kane came out. The commentators need to just be silent or quietly talking in shock when The Fiend attacks someone.




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