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Thread: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

  1. #141
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    With a 3 day weekend and pretty much unable to leave the house, I was hoping to hit 1300 workers. Fell short. Mainly because I dumped time into playing Motorsports Manager. I regret nothing. Somewhere around 1270. Just continuing to drop in random workers. Not all of them are lower-level talents, but many are. Including Mike Bennett, Zumbi, the Kubota Brothers, Mike Hitchman, PCO, Player Uno, Stu Grayson and a bunch of others.

    Kinda curious how many I still have on my spreadsheet to add. The list of active male workers is at about 250, but I would guess only about half of those have workers picked out. Which would put the workers to add somewhere around 125. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm "done' in any way. That just means its time to put more time into picking out worker matches. I'll probably spend awhile adding workers to the lists as well, so it could blow up to 500+ male workers and maybe 200+ female workers. so it won't be quick to find matches for a lot of them. But.... getting through a list like that would put me pretty close on a full game-world for active workers. I figured 2000 active workers (wrestlers and non-wrestlers) is a pretty reasonable game-world, as I've said before. Could end up being more like 2250 or something, but in that region. Somewhere around 1K yet-to-debut workers is what I'm thinking, but that could end up being a bit high.

    Still a long way to go but starting to see an end point lol
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  2. #142
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Only managed to add a couple of workers last night. The slow grind towards 2000 workers is... slow. And grindy.

    So been doing something a bit different. I rely heavily on Cagematch for rosters. What I've mostly been doing is using the All-Time Roster function, then searching by year. It requires a bit further checking, as being on the roster at some point in 2013 doesn't automatically mean they were when the mod starts. But that list sorts by appearances, and that's where it gets murky. Because someone may have only appeared a handful of times, so they are way down that list, which makes them easy to overlook.

    Another fact that I'm sure has already tripped me up a few times is the sporadic appearances. So someone appears for a company in January and February of 2013, but then not again until October. Should they be on the roster for the start of May? Maybe. Especially if its a smaller company which runs sporadic events. They might only miss 2 shows in that 7 month period. So it gets... fuzzy....

    What I've been doing lately on some down time is looking up show by show from a given period of time. That is helping me find more workers to add to the data. This is particularly helpful with smaller companies and with lucha.

    Lucha functions a bit weirdly, I've come to realize. The big two companies run shows almost every day of the week, but they are held in different regions. Its not really touring in the typical sense. Its almost like the two big companies have a tri-split roster. The main talent that is always out of Mexico City and always on TV, mid-level talent that shows up on TV sometimes and does show up on some of the other shows around the regions (so they move around a bit), and the regional talent that don't tour around but are connected to the given region. These are workers who mostly work for local companies in those areas, but will get booked onto CMLL or AAA shows in the area. Having the latter as contracted CMLL or AAA talent isn't quite correct, but its the closest TEW can do. Its almost like regulars on the "hire local" mechanism but that isn't something the game does. I will probably have most of these regional workers on the AAA and CMLL rosters, and if they cut them, they cut them.

    Some of these regional workers are ones who don't seem to be in other mods, so I'm having to cut pics for them. Not really aiming to have a bigger indy scene for than other mods, but may end up that way to some degree. I'm not going to compete with The Who's mods, which are focused on having EVERONE in there. But so many are very generic. Generic skills and generic data. That is something I'm absolutely trying to avoid.
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  3. #143
    King EC

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Only managed to add a couple of workers last night. The slow grind towards 2000 workers is... slow. And grindy.

    So been doing something a bit different. I rely heavily on Cagematch for rosters. What I've mostly been doing is using the All-Time Roster function, then searching by year. It requires a bit further checking, as being on the roster at some point in 2013 doesn't automatically mean they were when the mod starts. But that list sorts by appearances, and that's where it gets murky. Because someone may have only appeared a handful of times, so they are way down that list, which makes them easy to overlook.

    Another fact that I'm sure has already tripped me up a few times is the sporadic appearances. So someone appears for a company in January and February of 2013, but then not again until October. Should they be on the roster for the start of May? Maybe. Especially if its a smaller company which runs sporadic events. They might only miss 2 shows in that 7 month period. So it gets... fuzzy....

    What I've been doing lately on some down time is looking up show by show from a given period of time. That is helping me find more workers to add to the data. This is particularly helpful with smaller companies and with lucha.

    Lucha functions a bit weirdly, I've come to realize. The big two companies run shows almost every day of the week, but they are held in different regions. Its not really touring in the typical sense. Its almost like the two big companies have a tri-split roster. The main talent that is always out of Mexico City and always on TV, mid-level talent that shows up on TV sometimes and does show up on some of the other shows around the regions (so they move around a bit), and the regional talent that don't tour around but are connected to the given region. These are workers who mostly work for local companies in those areas, but will get booked onto CMLL or AAA shows in the area. Having the latter as contracted CMLL or AAA talent isn't quite correct, but its the closest TEW can do. Its almost like regulars on the "hire local" mechanism but that isn't something the game does. I will probably have most of these regional workers on the AAA and CMLL rosters, and if they cut them, they cut them.

    Some of these regional workers are ones who don't seem to be in other mods, so I'm having to cut pics for them. Not really aiming to have a bigger indy scene for than other mods, but may end up that way to some degree. I'm not going to compete with The Who's mods, which are focused on having EVERONE in there. But so many are very generic. Generic skills and generic data. That is something I'm absolutely trying to avoid.
    Man you're really getting there!

    It really has me wanting to try building a mod for 2020... or perhaps just taking an established mod and moving it a few years back and forward and doing my own alterations at least. But that itch will probably be gone by the time this whole quarantine thing passes by.

    Yeah, I have a love/hate relationship with The Who's mods. Love that everyone imaginable is available (well, almost, I actually added in a few really minor indie guys myself) but the stats being so generic is a bother. I was running Impact recently and I think every single worker had the same stamina, which was like 60. And having a 60 stamina doesn't get you very far. Eddie Edwards and Michael Elgin should be able to work a 15+ minute match without a penalty for becoming fatigued, you know?
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  4. #144
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Peanutbutter View Post
    Man you're really getting there!

    It really has me wanting to try building a mod for 2020... or perhaps just taking an established mod and moving it a few years back and forward and doing my own alterations at least. But that itch will probably be gone by the time this whole quarantine thing passes by.

    Yeah, I have a love/hate relationship with The Who's mods. Love that everyone imaginable is available (well, almost, I actually added in a few really minor indie guys myself) but the stats being so generic is a bother. I was running Impact recently and I think every single worker had the same stamina, which was like 60. And having a 60 stamina doesn't get you very far. Eddie Edwards and Michael Elgin should be able to work a 15+ minute match without a penalty for becoming fatigued, you know?
    Really wasn't sure I would get this far, so its kinda cool to start to an end point. 2000 active workers is a guess, not an absolute. I might hit that and still feel like a lot of stuff needs to get filled in. But I feel like somewhere around 3000 workers overall - active and yet to debut - is a pretty nice size for a gameworld. Having 5K or more just makes for a really slow gaming experience.

    That "generic" element is going to happen to some degree. Positvie and negative. But definitely moreso on the low end of the talent scale. Low level workers will end up being fairly samey. The upside of that - to me - is that they are fairly painless to add. If I import a worker who is all in the D and E skill levels and I convert them over, I probably don't have to worry too much about their skills being "dead on accurate".

    When it comes to modding, it sounds like TEW 2020 may be even easier. Especially with mass add functions to fill in game areas and quick add. I basically got started with wanting a different WCW Lives scenario and needing to test out the TEW 2016 DB converter in the beta testing phase, so it does tend to evolve. But messing around with moving another mod back could be fun. If you may release, just ask for permission from the original modder if possible.

    I actually use The Who's community data site for some stuff. Its super-useful. And they did some great work on skill balancing for the top end of the talent. But middling talent just ends up being all on a template. I don't blame them at all, but its not an aspect I like either. As I've said before, one of the main intents with taking the data from the Cverse and Tverse was to have those far flung corners of the wrestling globe still have plenty of talent. I don't know that I will ever run a company in Australia or Germany, but I want the talent there to at least make it appealing and reasonable. When I look at wXw in a mod and literally everyone is E and D and that's it.... there's no draw there. And I was absolutely guilty of that on the 2k1 mod. The flipside is that some workers will be a bit overrated, but.... as long as the results aren't thrown way out of whack by that, so be it.
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  5. #145
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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    1300

    Kinda. But not really.

    The total workers is at 1300. But its not quite legit. A few of those are the templates and there are several workers who have been imported but not converted over. Some of the added talent includes Lita, Trish Stratus, Lionheart, Lio Rush (yet to debut), Noah Kekoa (Kona Reeves), Hooligan (aka Lucerifno), Lizmark Jr, Samuray del Sol, Ryan Nemeth, Hercules Senga, Sam Adonis, and a few others. Basically, did some in the L section of the spreadsheet and then a handful from the S area.

    As I've mentioned, a lot of these are fairly low-level workers. Not terrible, by any means, but fairly mediocre. Either because they are very young or just "mid-card in a decent indy promotion" types. That makes them fairly easy to skill and I worry a bit less about accuracy at the lower end of the scale.

    At the upper end.... I'm still itching to do some balancing. I feel like the mod is restrictive on top-level skills. Without having actual numbers to back it up, my perception is that both the Cverse and Tverse have more workers with attributes at the very top. So things like Psychology, Star Quality, etc. I don't want to artificially inflate workers, but I am equally leery of skill depression, where everyone is merely GOOD and that makes the truly great workers stand out less.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  6. #146
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    1335. But again, not really. 6 template workers and 5 who have been imported but not edited yet, so actually 1324. Still, not bad at all. Some of the additions include Jay Bradley, Jax Dane, Imposible, Jaki Numazawa, Matthew Justice, Magia Blanca, Michael Hutter and bunch of others. Again, almost all of them are middling talents - either because they are pretty early into their career or because they just aren't that great.

    What's kinda exciting is that I did a quick count. The overall list of active male workers is right around 200 - it would be under but I've added a few names. But less than half of those names have CV/TV workers picked out. My quick count is about 60 worker. So another 60 and I've exhausted the workers I have picked out. That's pretty cool. As I mentioned before, I will then do a blitz to add more names to the list and then start another process of finding matches. I can keep adding some non-wrestlers and veterans, which might do, because they all need to go in eventually. Plus I think this group of additions / matches might be quite huge. To the point where it would move me really close to finishing up the active game world
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
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    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



  7. #147
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    1392. But again, not really.

    I said "fuck it" and just imported all the remaining workers I had picked out in the spreadsheet. Its going to take awhile to mow through these 70-ish workers and get them all converted over. But smaller work histories, lower level skills and popularity, and less info needed for a bio are shorten the time it takes individually. Once I am through these, then its just a few veterans I had picked out and then the long-list of non-wrestlers as well.

    Some of the recent ones include Charlie Garrett (aka Charlie Sterling), Damian Dunne, Chris Vice, Jesse Sorensen, Cassidy Riley....

    Not that work has a lot of downtime of late, but I've tried to steal bits of time on break and such to dig up more active workers to add. Probably mentioned this before, but mainly using Cagematch and looking at actually shows for this given time-period to find workers who aren't in the mod yet. I easily have 200-250 workers on that list, but some will be on there twice (working for two companies) or already in the data. And some will end up being not worthwhile to add.

    In addition to the other stuff I've been itching to do but held off on - testing, balancing, tweaking - I'm starting to look forward to adding yet to debut workers. They are just flat out faster. No employment history, no popularity, baseline skills, and very little biography. But.... while I already have a few in the data, I really want to wait to see how the yet-to-debut workers in the new Cverse look. I think that will have an impact on how I end up skilling them. On the 2K1 mod, I basically went with a template-model for yet-to-debut workers, which I'm not sure was ideal.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
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  8. #148
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Yes Natty, I expect Bryan Alvarez will be in it. And Dave Meltzer. And a few others who are more wrestling journalists than anything else. A couple of them might be made to be User Characters. I still only have the one - Dana White, who was just a quick import from the 2K1 mod.

    I don't want to do too many additions like Alvarez and Meltzer, because they don't work for companies and don't really have roles. So they are nice for game-world depth... but also just data clutter in another sense. Basically the same reason I don't have ring announcers in the data, or foreign-language broadcasters who are contracted to WWE. They don't serve an actual function in TEW, so.... there isn't much purpose to them.

    Haven't really thought much about who I will add in as user characters. Lots of historical mods use pop culture characters, which is fine. Like the 1987 Golden Age mod has JR Ewing, Dr Claw, Donald Trump and some others. I could probably get away without having anyone - people often seem to pick real characters to use anyway. Pop culture / fun characters are easy because if you have a bunch and then the user chooses to not include the unused ones in the game, they aren't missing anything.

    Looking at 2013....

    Elsa from Frozen
    Tony Stark
    Thor
    Smaug
    Gru from Despicable Me 2
    Katniss Everdeen

    Took a few minutes to look through pop culture and music stuff from 2013 and came up with... pretty much else beyond that list lol. very open to suggestions.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  9. #149
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Double posty goodness for today....

    So in digging through shows for companies and coming up with a big list of workers to add, I'm running into some conundrums. There is a particular dynamic that happens in all areas of wrestling, but it is particularly prevalent in women's wrestling.... short and/or sporadic careers. Someone who wrestles for like 3-4 years and then permanently retires. And unlike most wrestling retirements, they ACTUALLY leave the business.

    The short runs are really common in joshi. This partly seems tied to the joshi-idol dynamic - for some companies, these really aren't wrestlers first, but actresses/models who also happen to wrestler. So they put in a couple of years and move on with their careers. But it makes it a bit hard to decide whether someone should be included at times. I mean, if they debuted in early 2013, who cares if they left the business in 2017.... But if they debuted in 2010 and left the business in October 2013.... do I include them? Probably, but it depends on their relevance. A jobber in Stardom who appeared rarely carries less value to the mod than a potential star.

    the same thing happens elsewhere, but a bit differently. In Mexico and the UK, and in the US to a lesser extent, its not as much short careers - though those happen - but really scattered appearances. Someone who works a dozen shows in 2012 and then doesn't appear again until 2015, for 3 shows, then 3 more years off.... Some of that is down to availability of bookings for women wrestlers. There just aren't as many companies for them, and some of those companies are sporadic as well (Eve in the UK had a hiatus, for example).

    No blanket decision on them. Going to be case by case. If the worker doesn't add much value and its a region with plenty of women wrestlers, then less likely they get into the data.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
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  10. #150
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Had the day off of work yesterday so spent it very well by being productive and getting a lot of stuff done around Chez Papa

    :Capone:

    Just fucking kidding. I mostly fucked around on this and beta testing.

    1395, and 39 have no image. 5 of those are templates, another 5 or so are workers without images. so around 28-30 of the big batch I imported still need to be converted over. That's some pretty good progress.

    Some of the additions include Haku, Hakim Zane, Eddie Graves, Drako, Gotita de Plata, Greg Excellent, Greg Burridge, and Dylan Miley (aka Lars Sullivan). The latter turned out to be yet-to-debut.

    As I keep saying, these lower level workers are so much easier to add. Just flat out faster. I feel guilty at times that some are getting one-line bios, but fuck it. If they haven't done a lot and there isn't a great amount interesting about them.... At least I'm still writing the bios. I haven't resorted to having the game create them yet, which gets tempting at times.

    Random observation - so from about 2009 to 2013, I watched or at least followed TNA pretty regularly. I stopped watching it every in about 2012, but I kept up. Even in 2014, I would have a decent idea of what was going on at a given point in time. But by 2015 and 2016, they got none of my attention. And when they started to bring new talent in around then, it just wasn't anyone I knew and because I wasn't watching or even following, I really didn't get to know them. Over the last bit (not just this batch), some of those future-TNA talents have been added. And I find it a bit interesting that while a lot of them were active in mid-2013, most were at a pretty low level. When you look at the talent that the WWE signed up in 2014-2017, a LOT of them were indy darlings to some extent. Even the ones from Australia were standing out there. The TNA talents were much more hidden, working for micro-indies and shindies in the northeast and Midwest. A few were indy standouts - Sami Callahan, the Crist brothers, etc. But those were a bit later (2018-2019) additions to TNA. Most of the indy talent from 2013 that were standing out and who made it big landed in the WWE or AEW. Might say something about the decline of TNA through those few years.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
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  11. #151
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    1395. And actually 1395, minus the couple of template-workers still in there. I finished out converting the workers I had mass-added last week.

    That finishes out my list of workers that I have picked out. It left my list of active workers that need to have a CV/TV worker picked out for at about 170 for male and around 100 for female. So before I started picking out new matches, I had to add more workers to the list of yet-to-be-added. As mentioned, I had come up with a bunch by trolling through Cagematch and I expected adding those would really blow up the list. But it really didn't. I think I'm around 250-270 of male workers and under 200 female workers.

    The process of picking out matches is going to be a slog. Its quite a few hours of pouring through the Cverse and Tverse. Its obviously not hard work by any means and I don't mind it. But I'm going to be doing that for the next few days at least. I'm thinking I can dig up more names to add and will probably end up with something well over 500. Which would close us in on 2000 workers and be relatively close to where the active workers should probably be.

    Still some semi-active veterans and a load of non-wrestlers to add. If I can get past the drive to be "accurate" with the personal details for the non-wrestlers, they will be relatively painless to add. I might actually add some non-wrestlers as I go through the Cverse and Tverse to look for worker matches.

    A pretty minor debate I've been having is how far I want to go with adding workers who add little value. I decided awhile back that I would add a handful (20 or 30, maybe) deceased workers. I don't want to add tons because it starts to feel like data clutter. But what about the retired and semi-retired workers? How far do I go with that? Shane Douglas or Vader make sense to have in there for various reasons.... but what about Chuck Palumbo? Lash Leroux? Koko B Ware? Elix Skipper? Jim Duggan? They bring varying value. Some still work really occasionally while others seem to be done with the business. Someone who is occasionally active makes sense to have in there, as they can be potential road agents and could have a bit of value to someone running a small company. But if they are done with the business and would realistically therefore add very little. They would have no roles. If they aren't a Hall of Immortals or a Hall of Fame candidate for a company, then there just isn't much purpose. Was chatting with Genadi and he likes having some of those workers, for game-world and immersion purposes. I might open up a bit but I don't think I'll go too far. Can be added later if people who try the mod feel it will add value.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
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  12. #152
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    Not much purpose to this update, but fuck it.

    I started matching up Joshi workers. Have matches for almost all of them. But I honestly though I would have Japanese workers to add. It also made me realize that both the Cverse and Tverse really are quite limited in terms of their women's scenes. I mean, I kinda knew that, but this is starting to really resonate. Cverse has 1 joshi company and Tverse has 1 or 2... TYM has 8 active joshi companies, 1 yet to open, and while they share talent, its a LOT of joshi workers.

    Its not just joshi, though. Those 2 worlds have 1 or 2 all-women promotions in the US while TYM has 3. the bigger companies all have divisions. Most indy companies have a division of some size. Both of the big lucha promotions have luchadora divisions.

    What really made the numbers resonate was when I started to do some data analysis. The export to MDF function is nice for that. You an export as an Access DB, then convert the data you need into an Excel document and do some breaking down. Looking at averages for male and female for all skills, as well as how many within the top range (both in terms of actual numbers and percentages of total workers of that type). I'm not going to go crazy trying to have TYM match up with the Cverse or Tverse in this regard, but its a quick way to assess whether some specific attributes are way off mod-wide, which could impact the balance to some degree. And breaking the Cvere down into active male and active female wrestlers, I realized that the number of female wrestlers in the data is going to make the numbers on that skewed.

    The Tverse is better in terms of numbers for women, but not massively. Where this is going to get a bit tight for me is when I start to look at adding yet-to-debut workers. Neither of the mods has a huge number of yet-to-debut workers, so I will be using those plus younger workers who are already active and probably reusing some. In that aspect, its going to be the same for workers in every area. There could be 150 puro workers who debuted between mid-2013 and now, and that's probably as many yet-to-debut workers as the Tverse has in total lol

    Continuing to bash through Cagematch, looking for workers to add. Also trying to decide on veterans for inclusion. At home, I will keep going through the Cverse and Tvese, looking for worker matches.

    I also started fucking around with 1984, but that's not on the same platform so its fairly different. I've just created a bunch of companies and workers as "shells". Most of them are literally a name. I will fill in information gradually.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



  13. #153
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: [TEW 2016/2020] A 2013 Mod in Progress - The YES! Mod

    So the grand list is actually at around 500 workers long at this point, which would be pushing us pretty close to that 2000 target for active workers, as there is easily 100 non-workers and veterans/legends that need to go in as well. I started the process of picking out matches for those 500. I got thru the female portion, with only a few lacking a matched import worker now.

    I did take a few minutes to do something I have meant to do for a long long time but avoided for some reason.... I looked at the yet to debut workers in the two mods. And holy fuck there aren't a lot. they both have like 20-25 female yet to debut workers. That's.... not a lot compared to what the 2013 mod will have. I don't have much hope that the 2020 version of the Cverse will be loaded with them, and who knows when we might get an updated Tverse. So I'm mostly going to be looking at near-rookies from the Cverse and Tverse and using those. Hoping that the Cverse 2020 will have some new rookie workers created that I can draw upon.

    Getting all of these workers matched up, imported, and converted would bring us relatively close to having the full game world for May 2013. I would still have to do some checking as I'm sure I would be missing some folks who SHOULD be in there.

    The list of stuff to do is still pretty long.

    Convert to 2020
    Check every company and adjust to new products
    Check every dojo / school
    Check every Broadcaster
    Check every venue (or at least some of them)
    Go through all the workers to add attributes
    Go through all the company schedules
    Go through all the company relationships to adjust them for TEW 2020 options
    Finish adding title belts
    Add title belt lineages

    As I was literally just telling Jon, my big conundrum at the moment is when to convert over. My concern is that if I convert it over, I will start to focus on all the conversion-related stuff instead of continuing to keep an eye on adding more talent. Life is full of hard decisions.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



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