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Thread: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

  1. #181

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Meanwhile I'm in bizarro world because I've always much preferred the Clips to the Lakers but right now it's flip flopped cause I'd much rather see LeBron back in the Finals than see Kawhi get another ring.

    Not like it matters cause Bucks in six, though.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Silk View Post
    Meanwhile I'm in bizarro world because I've always much preferred the Clips to the Lakers but right now it's flip flopped cause I'd much rather see LeBron back in the Finals than see Kawhi get another ring.

    Not like it matters cause Bucks in six, though.
    How come you dont want Kawhi to get another ring? Or is it that you think LeBron is more likely to flop in the finals than Kawhi is?

    My ultimate preference is for Lakers to not win the title. I dont like teams built that way. Unlike last year where Harden was basically the only guy I didnt want to see win the title, there are a lot more teams I dont care to see win the title this year (since the talent has spread so far out). It would be really cool if Giannis managed to bring Bucks a title. I wouldnt mind seeing Sixers win a title as well but with how annoying HoHo is about Sixers, Im down to pass on them. I really dig Kemba & the Celts though they dont stand much of a chance. Portland or Nuggets going far would be cool too even if Jokic can be a bit icky. Just no Rockets/Lakers/Heat/Nets.

  3. #183

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    How come you dont want Kawhi to get another ring? Or is it that you think LeBron is more likely to flop in the finals than Kawhi is?
    I just don't like or respect him. It seems pretty clear to me that he did the Spurs severely dirty when they were willing to fly to the moon and back for him and that doesn't sit well with me. Everyone's forgotten about it cause he brought a title to a titleless city and it's a big feel good moment and he's the NBA's hero now even though he basically just did the same thing that got LeBron crucified for going to Miami, but I didn't. I respect the hell out of LeBron and think he's one of the best of all time and love to see him do well, so I'd much rather he succeed than Kawhi continue to do well in the wake of spiting one of the best organizations in the league.



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  4. #184
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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Silk View Post
    I just don't like or respect him. It seems pretty clear to me that he did the Spurs severely dirty when they were willing to fly to the moon and back for him and that doesn't sit well with me. Everyone's forgotten about it cause he brought a title to a titleless city and it's a big feel good moment and he's the NBA's hero now even though he basically just did the same thing that got LeBron crucified for going to Miami, but I didn't. I respect the hell out of LeBron and think he's one of the best of all time and love to see him do well, so I'd much rather he succeed than Kawhi continue to do well in the wake of spiting one of the best organizations in the league.
    Ignoring the fact that your assessment of Leonard's behavior in Spurs is bullshit and wholly ignores Spurs mistreatment of Kawhi (berating him for not playing when even in Toronto he had to rehabilitate and take many nights off - Kawhi couldve easily ended up in a Klay/KD situation but sure Spurs are the good guys here), if LeBron/Kawhi did the exact same thing, why is LeBron deserving of respect when Kawhi isnt?

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    Ignoring the fact that your assessment of Leonard's behavior in Spurs is bullshit and wholly ignores Spurs mistreatment of Kawhi (berating him for not playing when even in Toronto he had to rehabilitate and take many nights off - Kawhi couldve easily ended up in a Klay/KD situation but sure Spurs are the good guys here), if LeBron/Kawhi did the exact same thing, why is LeBron deserving of respect when Kawhi isnt?
    Well I can see you want to defend Kawhi he won your team a Title I get it, but him playing wasn't some major injury it was a Thigh Bruise/Contusion and he missed 73 Games that Season. Granted I know he felt well I'm leaving most likely why risk myself, but he would of gained alot more respect if he played and he played with The Raptors hurt, but he decided other wise to quit on the Team i the vibe I remember a few Seasons ago. Not to say how The Spurs handled the situation was any better, but Kawhi is not innocent as well. I like Kawhi as well as a player, but I bet and he'll never say it, he should of handled that way better with The Spurs.


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  6. #186
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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    Ignoring the fact that your assessment of Leonard's behavior in Spurs is bullshit and wholly ignores Spurs mistreatment of Kawhi (berating him for not playing when even in Toronto he had to rehabilitate and take many nights off - Kawhi couldve easily ended up in a Klay/KD situation but sure Spurs are the good guys here), if LeBron/Kawhi did the exact same thing, why is LeBron deserving of respect when Kawhi isnt?
    Well I can see you want to defend Kawhi he won your team a Title I get it, but him playing wasn't some major injury it was a Thigh Bruise/Contusion and he missed 73 Games that Season. Granted I know he felt well I'm leaving most likely why risk myself, but he would of gained alot more respect if he played and he played with The Raptors hurt, but he decided other wise to quit on the Team is the vibe I remember a few Seasons ago. Not to say how The Spurs handled the situation was any better, but Kawhi is not innocent as well. I like Kawhi as well as a player, but I bet and he'll never say it, he should of handled that way better with The Spurs.
    Last edited by Kairi HoHo; 07-12-2019 at 05:44 PM.


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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    Ignoring the fact that your assessment of Leonard's behavior in Spurs is bullshit and wholly ignores Spurs mistreatment of Kawhi (berating him for not playing when even in Toronto he had to rehabilitate and take many nights off - Kawhi couldve easily ended up in a Klay/KD situation but sure Spurs are the good guys here), if LeBron/Kawhi did the exact same thing, why is LeBron deserving of respect when Kawhi isnt?
    I totally agree. Don't blame Kawhi a bit for wanting to get out based on all the reports that came out. He had some form of tendinopathy, he tried to return at one point but didn't feel he was ready. He was continuing to rehab the whole time, so it's not like he was just as his house the whole year dicking around. And then you had all the questionable things his team was saying about him in the media. Anyways, the team was informed at the beginning of the year he wasn't interested in re-signing. If I were in his position of wanting to move on from my team, being a superstar who had a lot of money at stake once my contract is up and nursing an injury, and I've got my team breathing down my neck and saying shit to the media that comes off like they're questioning the validity of my injury. fuck them. I'm not going to jeopardize my future for those people. End of the day, he brought San Antonio a title they weren't winning without him, so for that I would be grateful regardless of things ending in shitty fashion. And I see nothing wrong with his move to the Clippers either. If anything, by orchestrating the PG trade to the Clips and signing there rather than joining LeBron and AD he has kept a balance in the NBA and pretty much ensured a fun and competitive league for years to come. This coming after ending the Heat and Warriors dynasties. Fuck that, I salute Kawhi. He's done nothing but made the NBA better with his actions.

  8. #188

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    Ignoring the fact that your assessment of Leonard's behavior in Spurs is bullshit and wholly ignores Spurs mistreatment of Kawhi (berating him for not playing when even in Toronto he had to rehabilitate and take many nights off - Kawhi couldve easily ended up in a Klay/KD situation but sure Spurs are the good guys here), if LeBron/Kawhi did the exact same thing, why is LeBron deserving of respect when Kawhi isnt?
    You and I remember this timeline very differently. Kawhi ghosted the Spurs, who were totally onboard with resting him and giving him as much time as he needed to recover from his ailment. The Spurs fucking INVENTED load management, and they were dedicated to supporting and building a team around Kawhi to keep him in San Antonio. They got him LaMarcus Aldridge, the premiere FA of his class, and were in the running for Kevin Durant but Kawhi wouldn't even show up to the meeting. Kawhi didn't show up at all, actually. Berated him for not playing? Popovich advocated to shut Kawhi down for the season but he and his camp refused, and then opted to not play anyway. I don't know if "berated" is the right word for "Hey, if you say you're healthy enough to play at some point, maybe you should play at some point," but I guess that's the spin you're going for.

    So San Antonio is supporting Kawhi, letting him see multiple outside doctors (who all said the same thing the Spurs doctor did), not shutting him down despite thinking its the best call, and in return Kawhi vanishes on his whole team. Danny Green himself said that Kawhi barely talked to any of them, leaving all of them in the awkward position themselves to address the media about why he wasn't playing. The infamous team meeting came to pass because the Spurs players needed to know where Kawhi was at, so bad was his communication with his teammates. The dude was checked the fuck out.

    So ultimately he gets his trade, and exactly what the Spurs said became the reality anyway. His medical diagnosis never changed, he still has tedinopathy, it still obviously flared up in the playoffs once he started playing a tough schedule. They were willing to work with him, they were willing to rest him, they were willing to build a team around him. Kawhi ghosted them, blew off meetings with Pop, and he and his uncle temper tantrumed his way off to Toronto as a one year holdover until he could get what he wanted, a gig in L.A.

    THAT is not the same thing LeBron did. What he did this offseason, is largely the same thing LeBron did, and I have no issue with that. But LeBron never drama queened his way out of an organization the way Kawhi did. Even when he clearly didn't like it anymore in Cleveland the first time, he gritted it out, and left as a free agent. LeBron has never quit on a team the way Kawhi did.



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  9. #189

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Rockets have signed Tyson Chandler and *drum roll* former number one overall pick Anthony Bennett! That'll be a fun journey to see if he ever even plays a game.

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    tbf, growing up i was a clippers fan. corey maggette and his braids (same thing for iverson really) had him as one of my favorites. back when they had elton brand, quentin richardson. they were a whole ass crew. but my family was really into kobe + lakers so thats the team i ended up preferring in the long run. i feel icky liking kobe and by proxy the lakers tho so kawhi booking it to clippers is an easy pathway for me to slide back there and stay.

    also mostly just to harmlessly troll people and possibly get stabbed?
    Dude, it's cool. I was just teasing you because the whole Raptors + Canada + multiple teams thing.

    Honestly, with how often players jump teams and how player driven the league is...I'd have to imagine many people follow players just as much if not more than teams?
    Everything will surely be alright.



  11. #191

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura View Post
    Dude, it's cool. I was just teasing you because the whole Raptors + Canada + multiple teams thing.

    Honestly, with how often players jump teams and how player driven the league is...I'd have to imagine many people follow players just as much if not more than teams?
    While I'd stick with the Bucks no matter what, I would definitely follow Giannis wherever he goes (hopefully nowhere) at this point, and have been a LeBron stan for several years now among a few other players. Individual players definitely draw their own crowds in this sport and I think that's by and large a good thing.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    I'll never put any team ahead of the Rockets but I have at different points considered myself a fan of other teams just due to the roster. For example, the Lob City Clippers, Lillard's Blazers and KG's Twolves.

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Also, I definitely side with Silk on the Kawhi thing.

    He does seem really down to earth and all....But yeah, he totally diva'd out in San Antonio, and they would have done anything for him.

    And then he went to Toronto, won a title there, and everyone there is all "Yay, we love you, thanks." and Kawhi pretty much just said "Yeah, thanks for the title. Peace." and bailed there, too.

    If Kawhi does it, it's cool. If Durant does it, he's a snake. Apparently.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    In fairness, no the Spurs did not call out Kawhi in public, but players (like Tony Parker) did call out Kawhi and then try and retract it. Kawhi thought they used the questionable status when they knew he would not be playing to make it seem like his injury wasn't as bad as he felt it was. He felt Pop was using players like Parker and Green to undermine him in the media.
    Also keep in mind he was one year out from free agency and just saw what my beloved Celtics did to Isiah Thomas the year prior. The NBA is not enjoyment anymore for these guys. This is their future. Ask someone like Derrick Rose or Isiah Thomas how quickly a players value can go down. In this case, everything went the players way. That happens very rarely. Very few players in the NBA can control their fate, and the ones that can should know that is fleeting.


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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    In fairness, no the Spurs did not call out Kawhi in public, but players (like Tony Parker) did call out Kawhi and then try and retract it. Kawhi thought they used the questionable status when they knew he would not be playing to make it seem like his injury wasn't as bad as he felt it was. He felt Pop was using players like Parker and Green to undermine him in the media.
    Re: Tony Parker If you mean his "Way worse injury" comment, that was clearly taken the wrong way. Parker was just defending team doctors saying his injury was really bad and they were instrumental in getting him healthy. He obviously could have phrased it better, but I think most people understood the context of what he was saying except the media who needed to blow up that story. Also keep in mind Kawhi had been ghosting the team for several months by that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura View Post
    If Kawhi does it, it's cool. If Durant does it, he's a snake. Apparently.
    It's not even just the stars, it's the teams. If Kawhi had fucked off to the Lakers there would almost definitely be at least some groundswell about him being a snake, but because he went to the "good guys" he's being universally celebrated.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakura View Post
    Also, I definitely side with Silk on the Kawhi thing.

    He does seem really down to earth and all....But yeah, he totally diva'd out in San Antonio, and they would have done anything for him.

    And then he went to Toronto, won a title there, and everyone there is all "Yay, we love you, thanks." and Kawhi pretty much just said "Yeah, thanks for the title. Peace." and bailed there, too.

    If Kawhi does it, it's cool. If Durant does it, he's a snake. Apparently.
    Nah nah nah. I understand if your perception of how he left San Antonio is bad but you can't hold anything about his Raptors tenure against him. He didn't ask to go there in the first place and still lead them to a title. Before ever leaving SA he made it clear he wanted to play in LA so Toronto knew exactly what they were getting into. Makes no sense to compare him to Durant either. Durant blew a 3-1 lead to the Dubs, then went and signed with them that offseason, as they were coming off a 73-9 season and already employed 3 All Stars. At best you could say he took the easy out and at worst you could say he ran scared with his tail tucked between his legs. Nonetheless, that doesn't make him a snake. What makes people call him a snake is the reports that he had dinner with Russ and told him he was coming back less than 24 hours before signing with the Dubs. Obviously, that's been contested but who really knows. I think White Rhyno definitely hit the nail on the head for the most part as to why I feel Kawhi doesn't deserve to look like too slimy in all this. Just imagine he plays through injury for the Spurs and ends up with a more serious injury like a torn Achilles or ACL... is there even the slightest chance that the Spurs still give him a max contract this offseason? Highly unlikely. I have a hard time sympathizing with the franchise over the players in such a situation.

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    I think White Rhyno definitely hit the nail on the head for the most part as to why I feel Kawhi doesn't deserve to look like too slimy in all this. Just imagine he plays through injury for the Spurs and ends up with a more serious injury like a torn Achilles or ACL... is there even the slightest chance that the Spurs still give him a max contract this offseason? Highly unlikely. I have a hard time sympathizing with the franchise over the players in such a situation.
    This is with the understanding that the Spurs were overtly pressuring him to play and I still don't see the evidence to suggest that.

    Keep in mind that VERY EARLY in Kawhi's injury process, the Spurs ceded control of him to his own doctors for rehabbing and consultation and Popovich said on more than one occasion that it was their call to make whether Kawhi returned to play or not. If anything they were remarkably hands off on the whole thing.
    Last edited by Silk; 07-13-2019 at 02:23 AM.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Nah nah nah. I understand if your perception of how he left San Antonio is bad but you can't hold anything about his Raptors tenure against him. He didn't ask to go there in the first place and still lead them to a title. Before ever leaving SA he made it clear he wanted to play in LA so Toronto knew exactly what they were getting into. Makes no sense to compare him to Durant either. Durant blew a 3-1 lead to the Dubs, then went and signed with them that offseason, as they were coming off a 73-9 season and already employed 3 All Stars. At best you could say he took the easy out and at worst you could say he ran scared with his tail tucked between his legs. Nonetheless, that doesn't make him a snake. What makes people call him a snake is the reports that he had dinner with Russ and told him he was coming back less than 24 hours before signing with the Dubs. Obviously, that's been contested but who really knows. I think White Rhyno definitely hit the nail on the head for the most part as to why I feel Kawhi doesn't deserve to look like too slimy in all this. Just imagine he plays through injury for the Spurs and ends up with a more serious injury like a torn Achilles or ACL... is there even the slightest chance that the Spurs still give him a max contract this offseason? Highly unlikely. I have a hard time sympathizing with the franchise over the players in such a situation.
    I dunno man, as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as team loyalty in the NBA anymore, anyway. Pretty sure that ship sailed and sank when Dirk retired.

    The way the league is run by the players, and how frequent players jump all over the place in comparison to say..NFL, NHL, etc? Throw in the fat, 7 out of 10 stars are all divas.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Silk View Post
    This is with the understanding that the Spurs were overtly pressuring him to play and I still don't see the evidence to suggest that.

    Keep in mind that VERY EARLY in Kawhi's injury process, the Spurs ceded control of him to his own doctors for rehabbing and consultation and Popovich said on more than one occasion that it was their call to make whether Kawhi returned to play or not. If anything they were remarkably hands off on the whole thing.
    Well this is how I see it: He attempted to return after being cleared by doctors. He played nine games, then chose to shut it down because he didn't feel he was able to play comfortably. First, that makes me feel like what he was going through was legit because if he wanted to sit out the whole year, he could have just done that, rather than attempting to play. Second, from his perspective, it is understandable for him to think twice about trusting team doctors at that point because even though he was medically cleared he obviously felt he wasn't physically able. From that point, he has established with the Spurs that he will return to playing when he feels he's ready. He states one day that he's coming along well and will hopefully return before the season's over and then days later you have Parker's comment as well as Manu saying he doesn't believe Kawhi is coming back and he's basically tired of being convinced that he might. Then you have the player's only meeting where they confront him about his injury and when he'll be coming back. So, he doesn't come back during the season, they go the Playoffs and you have Pop praising LMA for playing through everything, handling adversity and never complaining. Could be totally innocent but when asked about it, he never denies that it was about Kawhi. So. Kawhi's established that he'll return when he feels he's ready, but he still has all these people constantly on his back, questioning when he'll return and seemingly questioning the legitimacy of the injury. Yeah, that would rub me the wrong way too. Basically all throughout the process of trying to rehab your injury and play through the pain, your team doesn't seem to be standing up for you and obviously care more about getting you back on the floor asap than seeing you get back to 100%. This all coming right on the back of the Celtics rushing IT back, exacerbating his hip injury and costing him a fuck ton of money and basically derailing his career. All in all, I do get that he didn't handle the situation as well as he could have. But, I also think he was in a tough situation and shit happens. A lot of the details are kind of vague and come down to perception so it makes sense we would not see things quite the same.

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    Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

    I think it's pretty sad how the 1-4 seeds in the East from last season all got worse (BOS, MIL, TOR, PHI), and they're still probably going to be the 1-4 seeds next season barring an unexpected breakout.


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