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Thread: The Civil NA Politics Thread

  1. #4561
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    So if we need stricter background checks to identify the people who shouldn't have a gun, we are, in essence, denying some their Constitutional right to protect themselves. That seems awfully like an infringement on their rights to me.

    People accuse others of politicising tragedies because it shows a lack of empathy or some shite. Sorry, but hundreds of mass shootings and countless other firearm related homicides is a political issue. Who'd have thought. Because this is a big problem that is not being addressed, and won't be in any significant way because of how normalised gun fetish culture is, and how profitable it is to politicians. Gun nuts are so quick to be like "you can't talk about gun control, it's too soon, have some respect at time" or "you're politicising a tragedy" so they can deflect any meaningful discussion. It's handy for them because by the time it isn't too soon to be talking about gun control, there's already been another mass shooting and then it's "you can't talk about gun control, it's too soon, have some respect at time" or "you're politicising a tragedy"

    I wish the people who are so hell bent on their guns and not doing anything would just be honest to themselves and people they debate with. That they truly think that the hundreds of dead bodies across the states is worth it for their guns. Probably because they have the mindset of "fuck you, I got mine" if it doesn't hit close enough to home, I'd guess.

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    Last edited by Shock; 08-10-2019 at 01:15 AM.





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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    So if we need stricter background checks to identify the people who shouldn't have a gun, we are, in essence, denying some their Constitutional right to protect themselves. That seems awfully like an infringement on their rights to me.

    People accuse others of politicising tragedies because it shows a lack of empathy or some shite. Sorry, but hundreds of mass shootings and countless other firearm related homicides is a political issue. Who'd have thought. Because this is a big problem that is not being addressed, and won't be in any significant way because of how normalised gun fetish culture is, and how profitable it is to politicians. Gun nuts are so quick to be like "you can't talk about gun control, it's too soon, have some respect at time" or "you're politicising a tragedy" so they can deflect any meaningful discussion. It's handy for them because by the time it isn't too soon to be talking about gun control, there's already been another mass shooting and then it's "you can't talk about gun control, it's too soon, have some respect at time" or "you're politicising a tragedy"

    I wish the people who are so hell bent on their guns and not doing anything would just be honest to themselves and people they debate with. That they truly think that the hundreds of dead bodies across the states is worth it for their guns. Probably because they have the mindset of "fuck you, I got mine" if it doesn't hit close enough to home, I'd guess.

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    Of course.

    Because if you examine the psychology of the mentality, it is rooted in a mixture of fear, paranoia, greed, and narcissism.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Welp.

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead, and any info he may have carried with him has gone to the grave alongside him.

    Anyone else feeling a bit suspect about this?

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    The entire "Killary" and "Clinton Body Count" conspiracy lovers are going nuts with this one, yet seemingly ignoring the fact one of his close friends was Trump, apparently.


    Who knows, tbh. He had plenty of enemies. But he was also a disgraced man about to spend life in prison for sex crimes.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    Welp.

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead, and any info he may have carried with him has gone to the grave alongside him.

    Anyone else feeling a bit suspect about this?
    It's dodgy af. A lot of very powerful people are going to be protected thanks to this.

    This man was the most likely person to kill himself/be killed while incarcerated and everyone knew it. I don't buy it for one second that this was a normal "suicide" and nobody else should either.





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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Well this is something we can all agree on.

    That guy did not kill himself.

    Buddy if you try to take my rights you're in for one hell of a fight
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Maybe, maybe not. Pedophiles in prison often kill themselves. So it's not completely out of the question.

    They are also often murdered. And this one had a lot of enemies on both sides of the political spectrum, and other celebrities.

    Why on earth, after one "suicide attempt", he was allowed off suicide watch is beyond me. But this absolutely needs to be thoroughly investigated, because he had a lot of people he could bring down.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post

    I wish the people who are so hell bent on their guns and not doing anything would just be honest to themselves and people they debate with. That they truly think that the hundreds of dead bodies across the states is worth it for their guns. Probably because they have the mindset of "fuck you, I got mine" if it doesn't hit close enough to home, I'd guess.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
    On the flip side of your "emotional" argument, those that want to get rid of guns or highly restrict them need to be honest with themselves. They care nothing about the people who would die because they were denied access to a gun and personal protection of a necessary degree.

    They always say, "People should just call the police, they don't need guns" and when it is brought to their attention that police response times in rural areas can be up to an hour or longer their reply is "Well they shouldn't live that far away from Police protection."

    Like it or not, the right to keep and bear arms still is as valuable and useful today as it was when granted by the Founding Fathers in their great and unrivaled wisdom.

    If you want to change it, amend the Constitution. It was made difficult to do so for a reason.

    And with that, I must once more bow out of this gun debate.

    *tips hat*


    Buddy if you try to take my rights you're in for one hell of a fight
    When it comes to my Constitution I'm a true believer
    Come to my house I'll tell you right now, I'll give you my gun
    When you pry it from my cold dead hand, start with my middle finger

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    That argument makes it seem like America is the only country with rural areas, though. >.>
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang View Post
    On the flip side of your "emotional" argument, those that want to get rid of guns or highly restrict them need to be honest with themselves. They care nothing about the people who would die because they were denied access to a gun and personal protection of a necessary degree.

    They always say, "People should just call the police, they don't need guns" and when it is brought to their attention that police response times in rural areas can be up to an hour or longer their reply is "Well they shouldn't live that far away from Police protection."

    Like it or not, the right to keep and bear arms still is as valuable and useful today as it was when granted by the Founding Fathers in their great and unrivaled wisdom.

    If you want to change it, amend the Constitution. It was made difficult to do so for a reason.

    And with that, I must once more bow out of this gun debate.

    *tips hat*

    You'll be back.

    Anyways, literally any gun is good for self-defense. No one is saying "ban all guns" so whats your argument once you realize you still have the tools to defend yourself? No one is denying anyone access to all guns. Restricting the types of guns available will not effect your ability to still get a gun of some sort to defend yourself.

    I don't understand why you guys think "liberals" have an agenda for banning guns besides the agenda we should all have which is prevent mass shootings. They're not doing it to spite you, they're not doing it because they gain something immoral, they're doing it to prevent lives being lost. I just cant fathom how you can be mad at people for wanting to prevent lost lives. Where is the ulterior motive? There's nothing else to be gained here.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    You'll be back.

    Anyways, literally any gun is good for self-defense. No one is saying "ban all guns" so whats your argument once you realize you still have the tools to defend yourself? No one is denying anyone access to all guns. Restricting the types of guns available will not effect your ability to still get a gun of some sort to defend yourself.

    I don't understand why you guys think "liberals" have an agenda for banning guns besides the agenda we should all have which is prevent mass shootings. They're not doing it to spite you, they're not doing it because they gain something immoral, they're doing it to prevent lives being lost. I just cant fathom how you can be mad at people for wanting to prevent lost lives. Where is the ulterior motive? There's nothing else to be gained here.
    Yeah, I tried addressing that earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Or, now here me out...Or...Maybe they actually want to see a difference, and not have America be the only developed nation with this kind of mass shootings? What is it that leads you to think they "hate guns"? Why would that be logical? Why do you think they are all after your guns? That just seems like paranoia and NRA buzz words. What do you think the liberal left has to gain for confiscating guns? Or banning them, to begin with? All the while, you can very much see what the "conservative" right has to gain by having the lose gun laws, in the combination of votes and massive NRA funding.


    Not sure why anyone thinks having any sort of regulations or restricting certain kinds of firearms means you no longer have your "Right to bear arms".

    Again, not sure why people are so hell bent on following the words of a bunch of slave owners to heart, anyway. A bunch of people whom thought mercury and blood letting were medicine, and fought eachother in duels to resolve petty differences should have a say in modern society.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    you know even if the US somehow curbs mass shootings....the US still has a a sick amount of deaths by gun(not fitting into the criteria of mass shootings) that needs addressing.

    Some Walmarts has removed ads for violent videos games in their stores...but not ads for guns and ammo.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    My second question is, hypothetically, if restricting gun access did work and drastically reduced the amount of mass shootings, would pro-gun advocates care. Or are the lives lost through mass shootings worth access to all types of arms? If we could run a perfect simulation and discovered that it would drastically reduce the amount of mass shootings, would they thereafter be for restricting gun access? Because if the answer is guns > lives, then it saves us a lot of mindless arguments.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakstang View Post
    On the flip side of your "emotional" argument, those that want to get rid of guns or highly restrict them need to be honest with themselves. They care nothing about the people who would die because they were denied access to a gun and personal protection of a necessary degree.

    They always say, "People should just call the police, they don't need guns" and when it is brought to their attention that police response times in rural areas can be up to an hour or longer their reply is "Well they shouldn't live that far away from Police protection."

    Like it or not, the right to keep and bear arms still is as valuable and useful today as it was when granted by the Founding Fathers in their great and unrivaled wisdom.

    If you want to change it, amend the Constitution. It was made difficult to do so for a reason.

    And with that, I must once more bow out of this gun debate.

    *tips hat*

    Why don't you add some options instead of bitching and moaning about people infringing on "your" rights, because we all know you don't give a damn about the victims. You don't give a damn about their right to live. All you care about is your guns.

    So why don't you actually leave the conversation and let the adults talk about it instead of tipping your hat like an incel and leaving when you continually get thoroughly smacked. Why don't you go play victim and complain to the mods because poor Vayne, Fuji, Silk, and I were being mean to you, that's all you ever do.

    We offered alternatives. We offered opinions on what we can do, and you stuck your head in the sand and covered your ears, like a coward stuck in an echo chamber. We offered ideas for how to prevent people from continually getting shot day after day and you rebuffed them because, "I have a right to my minigun and hand grenades!"

    Your appeal to emotion is one of the weakest rebuffs I've ever seen, even by your standards.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Hypothetically speaking if a civil war in the US breaks out between right wingers and left wingers....who's side get backing from the majority of the world?
    Last edited by indyfan; 08-10-2019 at 03:31 PM.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfan View Post
    Hypothetically speaking if a civil war in the US breaks out between rigyt wingers and left wingers....who sides get backing from the majority of the world?
    All hypothetical of course. But no country will willingly get involved in anything involving the US on their soil. Russia and a few other countries would try and back both sides with money/weapons to cause more and more chaos, but no countries would do anything.





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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    I still think we should just tax the hell out of guns and ammunition. If you want to keep them, then you need to pay for the people, and stores who are irresponsible.

    If you have a legitimate need, you'll

    1.) Probably have a hunting license
    2.) Have an agriculture business
    3.) Member of the armed forces, or police/state patrol... etc.

    If you provide proof of any of the above, then you're exempt from paying taxes. It's not an exclusive gun database, because you'll already be in a database as a member of those 3 classes.

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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inogenius View Post
    I still think we should just tax the hell out of guns and ammunition. If you want to keep them, then you need to pay for the people, and stores who are irresponsible.

    If you have a legitimate need, you'll

    1.) Probably have a hunting license
    2.) Have an agriculture business
    3.) Member of the armed forces, or police/state patrol... etc.

    If you provide proof of any of the above, then you're exempt from paying taxes. It's not an exclusive gun database, because you'll already be in a database as a member of those 3 classes.
    A better solution put forth than I have heard, mostly. I still think all firearm owners should have to get a gun, and take a mandatory course in training and mental health screening, though. But yes, your idea is also good.
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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    The one thing I agree with Dak on is that the 2nd Amendment is something that can be changed. Yes, its difficult, but I think we as a country really need to look into amending the 2nd to get caught up with the times.

    Offering up our own personal opinions is well and good, but I think our own biases tend to get in the way to keep them from being- A) realistic and B) fair.

    The whole "rights" don't have the need of a permit or license is not quite accurate. Examples:

    "The Right to Free Speech" - doesn't mean you can say anything. The "fire" in a theater analogy is obvious one here.

    "The Right to Peaceably Assemble"- doesn't mean I can meet with my friends anywhere and have a rally. In many cases, you have to get a permit to demonstrate to ensure your right to assemble doesn't interfere with others rights. Also, police can disperse crowds in cases of public safety. If something dangerous happens (bomb scare/person has a hear attack and needs help, etc.) at a rally in NY, the police can order everyone off the street or out of a building. This DOES NOT interfere with their right to assemble

    "Freedom of Religion" - I can't practice human sacrifice if y religion says I can. Even if the person I'm going to give to my God agrees with it and wants me to do it...its still murder.


    I guess my point is.....Rights DO have limits. Usually, when someones rights start infringing on others rights, they are curtailed. I can make a serious argument that firearms and mass shootings qualify under this argument.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I had some ideas of "common sense" reform that I think could help, but after watching this discussion play out....I've already made these points before. Look them up. I don't have it in me to argue about my ideas and why they have merit. In all honesty, reading the back and forth and how sure we all seem about what should be done....just takes out all the mustard out of talking about this because most people's minds are made up. No one is listening to anyone any more; both sides just wait to speak. There will need to be some middle ground here to get anything accomplished and I haven't seen much. One side feels like they are giving up too much and the other side feels like so much more needs to be done that any resolution will wind up being panned by both sides.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On a personal note, Jon's reaction to the idea of a draft answered indy's question from a week or two back. "Why are servicemembers celebrated for a choice they make?" I think a big reason they are celebrated in the US is because an all volunteer Army means no one will be drafted or forced to serve. The fact that these people also willingly take on a job that could potentially put them in danger in service to their country and fellow citizens (I know how you feel about that slant Indy, but bear with me), and they have to give up several rights to serve is the WHY.
    Servicemembers can't decide when to quit, what assignments they will take, how long they are away from their families, they can't fight geographical moves if they are ordered to, etc. They (and their families) willingly take on that to keep EVERYONE from having to do it.

    Thats sounds like masturbation coming from me so I didn't want to share this too loudly, but the military isn't just another job. It requires a little bit more sacrifice than most.


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    Re: The Civil NA Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Rhyno View Post
    The one thing I agree with Dak on is that the 2nd Amendment is something that can be changed. Yes, its difficult, but I think we as a country really need to look into amending the 2nd to get caught up with the times.

    Offering up our own personal opinions is well and good, but I think our own biases tend to get in the way to keep them from being- A) realistic and B) fair.

    The whole "rights" don't have the need of a permit or license is not quite accurate. Examples:

    "The Right to Free Speech" - doesn't mean you can say anything. The "fire" in a theater analogy is obvious one here.

    "The Right to Peaceably Assemble"- doesn't mean I can meet with my friends anywhere and have a rally. In many cases, you have to get a permit to demonstrate to ensure your right to assemble doesn't interfere with others rights. Also, police can disperse crowds in cases of public safety. If something dangerous happens (bomb scare/person has a hear attack and needs help, etc.) at a rally in NY, the police can order everyone off the street or out of a building. This DOES NOT interfere with their right to assemble

    "Freedom of Religion" - I can't practice human sacrifice if y religion says I can. Even if the person I'm going to give to my God agrees with it and wants me to do it...its still murder.


    I guess my point is.....Rights DO have limits. Usually, when someones rights start infringing on others rights, they are curtailed. I can make a serious argument that firearms and mass shootings qualify under this argument.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I had some ideas of "common sense" reform that I think could help, but after watching this discussion play out....I've already made these points before. Look them up. I don't have it in me to argue about my ideas and why they have merit. In all honesty, reading the back and forth and how sure we all seem about what should be done....just takes out all the mustard out of talking about this because most people's minds are made up. No one is listening to anyone any more; both sides just wait to speak. There will need to be some middle ground here to get anything accomplished and I haven't seen much. One side feels like they are giving up too much and the other side feels like so much more needs to be done that any resolution will wind up being panned by both sides.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On a personal note, Jon's reaction to the idea of a draft answered indy's question from a week or two back. "Why are servicemembers celebrated for a choice they make?" I think a big reason they are celebrated in the US is because an all volunteer Army means no one will be drafted or forced to serve. The fact that these people also willingly take on a job that could potentially put them in danger in service to their country and fellow citizens (I know how you feel about that slant Indy, but bear with me), and they have to give up several rights to serve is the WHY.
    Servicemembers can't decide when to quit, what assignments they will take, how long they are away from their families, they can't fight geographical moves if they are ordered to, etc. They (and their families) willingly take on that to keep EVERYONE from having to do it.

    Thats sounds like masturbation coming from me so I didn't want to share this too loudly, but the military isn't just another job. It requires a little bit more sacrifice than most.
    Very well put. And a good point about the military, I can see why you feel that way.

    But yes, exactly about the rights having limits. And we definitely need to make sure things are caught up to times. We've come a long way in a lot of ways.
    Everything will surely be alright.



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