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Thread: General Football Discussion 2017-18

  1. #741
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Aye that is what I meant to regarding Tierney money.

    Celtic threw the tie away. Disappointing.

    Looks like Rangers are gonna have to win the league before we do anything.

    Think we will get through AIK fine as long as Lenny chooses a decent team. Scunnered that Shved, Sinclair and Jullien haven't played more. Imagine picking Morgan over Sinclair ffs.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Should have gone for Moyes haha.

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    I'll take eternal European failure over Moyes plz

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Its so frustrating when the club's office is cowardly and they show no ambition. Felt like that about Arsenal for quite awhile.

    Krasnodar dumping out Porto is big, too. they are a fairly new club in Russia, but have an amazing new stadium that the owner built (no government funding, which is why it wasn't used in the World Cup) and they have a great training round. They are a club who seems to do things "the right way" more than most.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Anyone watching the UEFA Super Cup? It's nice to see players like Salah, VVD and Kante in this stadium for a change. After that it's going to be Quaresma, Caner, Lens again and I'll cry.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    It would've been nice to see Andrew Robertson in a Celtic top last night tbh. Can't believe we let him go

    Hope Liverpool can win this.


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Galatasaray going on that Zenit - Benfica group. Mark my words.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Besiktas - Braga - Wolves - Bratislava

    ....fuck
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Time for revenge! Fuck Cluj!


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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Hell yeah! Astana here we come, baby.

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Ole could play the U23's and get through that group. Don't like the trip to face the Cycling team though, hopefully they'll arrange that bugger early on or last game of the group haha.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Had to laugh. I've seen 2 or 3 different sports site headlines about the Europa League draw, bemoaning how much travel it means for United. Motherfuckers sure didn't say that about Arsenal drawing similar last year. Its fun how differently certain clubs get covered.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Had to laugh. I've seen 2 or 3 different sports site headlines about the Europa League draw, bemoaning how much travel it means for United. Motherfuckers sure didn't say that about Arsenal drawing similar last year. Its fun how differently certain clubs get covered.
    Joys of the "reporters" concentrating on certain clubs huh?

    The way the fixtures fall, United could be through by the time of that horrid trip to Team Pro-Cycling, so Ole can take the U23's to that one and be done with it haha...that's assuming we win 4 from 4 first up like.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    Joys of the "reporters" concentrating on certain clubs huh?

    The way the fixtures fall, United could be through by the time of that horrid trip to Team Pro-Cycling, so Ole can take the U23's to that one and be done with it haha...that's assuming we win 4 from 4 first up like.
    That. Or something as simple as it happened to be "club specific" journalists rather than more general ones writing the articles. Just weird that it was across several sites. I vaguely recall seeing "Arsenal have to travel a lot, but that's what they get for being in the Europa League" aspect to a few articles last year. Same for Chelsea.

    I think us Gooners are just sensitive to some of the variations in coverage tone - real and perceived - because of how the English media treated Wenger for a long time contrasts with how they cover other managers, notably Pochettino. As Ed has pointed out before, they are obviously not directly comparable situations. But Wenger was mocked quite considerably in the media in the 2010-2015 period.
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    At least it isn't a long travel for the Gooners this time around....even Bergkamp could make all those games haha.

    Rangers are in with a shou of getting out of their group too...Celtic well let's see what they can do!
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    At least it isn't a long travel for the Gooners this time around....even Bergkamp could make all those games haha.

    Rangers are in with a shou of getting out of their group too...Celtic well let's see what they can do!
    yeah, its not too nasty of a group for us. That's pretty typical of the Europa League. Its more likely to be travel distance concerns than facing several powerhouse clubs.

    Would be nice to see the Scottish duo do some damage.
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  17. #757
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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/roo...onaldo.256978/

    This thread has been doing the rounds and it's a wild read. It's from 2005 comparing Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi and Robinho.

    I think it highlights why Rooney's accomplishments in football are a tad understated. He's England's top goalscorer but isn't talked about as the greatest English player, he's Man Utd's record scorer but isn't talked about as their best ever player. He's won everything domestically too.

    For those of us who watched him as a teenager I don't think it's hyperbolic to call him the best teenage talent since Brazilian Ronaldo. But while he had a head start over Ronaldo and Messi, they kept improving and improving, while Rooney arguably didn't get much better than he was as a teenager. For that reason I think people soured on Rooney - he'll have the stigma of not being Messi or Ronaldo, which is of course an unreasonable expectation of any player.

    Robinho is just proof that judging young talent is extremely difficult. He was an electric player but bad life and career choices ruined him.

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/roo...onaldo.256978/

    This thread has been doing the rounds and it's a wild read. It's from 2005 comparing Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi and Robinho.

    I think it highlights why Rooney's accomplishments in football are a tad understated. He's England's top goalscorer but isn't talked about as the greatest English player, he's Man Utd's record scorer but isn't talked about as their best ever player. He's won everything domestically too.

    For those of us who watched him as a teenager I don't think it's hyperbolic to call him the best teenage talent since Brazilian Ronaldo. But while he had a head start over Ronaldo and Messi, they kept improving and improving, while Rooney arguably didn't get much better than he was as a teenager. For that reason I think people soured on Rooney - he'll have the stigma of not being Messi or Ronaldo, which is of course an unreasonable expectation of any player.

    Robinho is just proof that judging young talent is extremely difficult. He was an electric player but bad life and career choices ruined him.

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    He is really unfairly judged, but I suppose any great forward of this generation is going to be unfairly judged because the #1 and #2 players of all time happen to be playing domestically and internationally on the same stage at the same time and they make anyone's record seem ordinary by comparison. Also for England fans and critics it's always going to be on the mind more that aside from Euro 2004 he didn't perform at the big tournaments for England and maybe his reputation would be better if he had scored 20 less goals in qualifiers, but just a few more at the world cup. Gazza is talked about adoringly because of Italia 90 and the goal against Scotland in 96, but largely he wasted his career and should of contributed way more to England than he did. While I think it's a fair criticism that he didn't really turn up at world cups, about 90% of England players during Rooney's time failed to do that too, at least he had one summer where he was electric~!

    I always loved Rooney as a player. What always stood out for me when he broke through was how naturally intelligent at the game he was. He wasn't a 20 goal a season wonderkid, someone like young Owen was probably a better goalscorer, but his decision making and passing was excellent and there was no ounce of intimidation of being a boy playing against men, and he just looked at 18-19 like someone that had played top flight football for 200 games. The CL debut for Utd against Fenerbahce is my favourite ever debut.

    Rooney will get to play at the Hawthorns later this season and whatever he does that day I'll give him a standing ovation for being a top scorer of my country.

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    I've never been so let down by a transfer to the PL than Robinho. I was so excited to see him play in England after being a PES favourite for years but yeah, wasted talent.

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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    Of England's Golden Generation of the early 00s, how many actually turned up for the country like they did their club? Beckham and Ashley Cole definitely, but after that you're struggling. As Rooney was the "star", certainly after Beckham went away, he never lived up to expectations.

    I respect Rooney because he was always selfless on the pitch. Ask him to play left wing to accomodate Tevez and Ronaldo? No problem. Need an extra body in midfield? No problem. Need someone to drop deeper to link midfield and strikers? No problem. Fergie knew how to get the best out of Rooney, and I don't think any other manager ever properly got how to use him.





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    Re: General Football Discussion 2017-18

    To me, Rooney was an 8/10 player that people wanted to be a 10 and therefore acted like he was a 6. The truth, as is often the case with these things, is somewhere in the middle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    I respect Rooney because he was always selfless on the pitch. Ask him to play left wing to accomodate Tevez and Ronaldo? No problem. Need an extra body in midfield? No problem. Need someone to drop deeper to link midfield and strikers? No problem. Fergie knew how to get the best out of Rooney, and I don't think any other manager ever properly got how to use him.
    This is one of the key points when looking at Rooney. He was kind of a jack of all trades who could be relied upon to be a team player and fulfill whatever was needed of him at the time. That both makes him a better player than he gets credit for, but also means his "records" are based more on longevity than anything (because you can always find a role for him somewhere in the team, no matter what system or style of play you have), and hence makes him somehow feel a bit undeserving to some.

    I also think Ferguson was a huge influence on the player he became, both for better and worse. Fergie was great at making the whole greater than the sum of the parts, and he turned Rooney in to that somewhat. As you say, Shock, need to accommodate Tevez and Ronaldo? Farm Rooney out wide. Got a injury crisis in centre midfield? Put Rooney in there. Need someone to track back and mark a rampaging full back. Rooney'll do that too. That does also mean that unfortunately he never really got the chance to be an "expert". If you use Football Manager as a loose analogy, it's like he increased all his stats by 2, rather than improving, say, Finishing, Off The Ball and Pace by 5 and becoming a regular 30 goal a season striker. If he'd have done that, people would have looked quite differently on him, I think.

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