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Thread: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Reading some serious blowback about the Stardom streaming service's change to how they do subtitles. Like, people talking about unsubscribing levels of frustration.
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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    If it's reddit you are reading then I doubt any people unsub. Theyre all massive shills. These are people who have been captive for a long time.

    Did Sonny get fired or some shit? I guess Stardom want to focus more on domestic shit.
    Last edited by RainShaker; 08-29-2019 at 12:38 PM.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RainShaker View Post
    If it's reddit you are reading then I doubt any people unsub. Theyre all massive shills. These are people who have been captive for a long time.

    Did Sonny get fired or some shit? I guess Stardom want to focus more on domestic shit.
    He was fired, I guess but how he is back.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Watching the episode of "The Wrestlers" about STARDOM. Boy, that owner doesn't mince his words about talent huh?

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    Watching the episode of "The Wrestlers" about STARDOM. Boy, that owner doesn't mince his words about talent huh?

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    That documentary was soooo uncomfortable. That promotion has such a weird pervy vibe.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    I was curious to check that out. Anyone have a link they wanna share?

    And yeah, looks like the subtitles thing was already resolved. I saw a fair few comments on Twitter as well. Didn't strike me as the typical fanboy "I want it my way" protesting which is why it just out at me.
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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Yeah Sonny is coming back next week thank goodness, because the Subtitle Caps I saw were like from someone who never translated Japanese before to English. We take for granted that we have them in general, and the barking was bound to happen, but it's all good now. For you guys who don't watch Tokyo Joshi Pro I would say do it. I know theirs theirs this thing from people who don't have it as high in terms of Wrestling, and I would say yes it does have this idol style/fan service type of stuff, but I think theirs alot of Wrestling to be hold with the Company. Just watch their recent Show that showed Maki become TJPW International Champion and the Tag Titles on the line in the Main Event. Hell even Yuka vs Su was a fun Matchup that had me thinking about Maho Kurone while also wanting a rematch or team up with the two. First time I've seen two Tables being used in a Match twice during a Match for TJPW.

    In other news as Ice Ribbon is showing off some pics of their Super Soaker fight, I got really hype seeing Sareee show up during one of their recent Shows. Fujimoto vs Yuhiki's Match together from 8/3 was amazing, one of the best of the Year and the thought of Sareee coming in and facing Fujimoto, Yuhiki and the rest of the Ice Ribbon Talent there is a early gift from Santa. Thank you Santa!
    Last edited by Kairi HoHo; 08-29-2019 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    That documentary was soooo uncomfortable. That promotion has such a weird pervy vibe.
    I read about the Japanese culture towards sex earlier this year that made me a bit more comfortable with it. It's obviously stuff that wouldn't fly round these isles but they have a whole different attitude about these things.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    I read about the Japanese culture towards sex earlier this year that made me a bit more comfortable with it. It's obviously stuff that wouldn't fly round these isles but they have a whole different attitude about these things.

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    For all the awesome aspects of Japanese culture, they can definitely turn the dial to 13 when it comes to sexuality, gender, etc. This a nation that needs women-only train cars due to groping issues. Lots of cringey shit when you see a bit deeper.
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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Yeah I've talked about this subject with Zero and Shake before, because Stardom/Rossy have shown this way about doing things for quiet awhile, it's just that more eyes are on the product and are noticing it. I would love to interview Rossy and I would bring up his comments toward AZM he had in the Documentary, and then ask did your feelings change about her when she donned a Bikini in your Bikiniing 8 Photobook at the age of 16 with Starlight Kid who I think turned 18 recently so she was 17 at the time. I'm sure the Parents agreed to it and all, but yeah Japanese Culture are way looser than most in the World and I've learned that in Anime and watching Super Sentai/Tokusatsu where kids are doing it all with no barriers.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    He was fired, I guess but how he is back.
    I see. Is he now making up some imaginary dude translating this week and pinning the blame on that? lmao. Maybe I just am biased.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    That documentary was soooo uncomfortable. That promotion has such a weird pervy vibe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    I read about the Japanese culture towards sex earlier this year that made me a bit more comfortable with it. It's obviously stuff that wouldn't fly round these isles but they have a whole different attitude about these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    For all the awesome aspects of Japanese culture, they can definitely turn the dial to 13 when it comes to sexuality, gender, etc. This a nation that needs women-only train cars due to groping issues. Lots of cringey shit when you see a bit deeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairi HoHo View Post
    Yeah I've talked about this subject with Zero and Shake before, because Stardom/Rossy have shown this way about doing things for quiet awhile, it's just that more eyes are on the product and are noticing it. I would love to interview Rossy and I would bring up his comments toward AZM he had in the Documentary, and then ask did your feelings change about her when she donned a Bikini in your Bikiniing 8 Photobook at the age of 16 with Starlight Kid who I think turned 18 recently so she was 17 at the time. I'm sure the Parents agreed to it and all, but yeah Japanese Culture are way looser than most in the World and I've learned that in Anime and watching Super Sentai/Tokusatsu where kids are doing it all with no barriers.

    Yeah, this is the thing. It's all cultural but it is still deeply uncomfortable. I don't know much about it because I'm not Japanese. I think there's a vibe that 'kawaii' or 'cuteness' is sexy and sells. You look at the idol industry for example. It's weird. The thing about the idol industry and joshi that makes it really noticable is that the fanbase are usually middle aged dudes and weebs. Mayu's story for example alot of people seem to identify with due to the loner aspect. Call it waifuism or whatever. But it's more prevalent in female oriented entertainment groups than it is with dudes. Or at least, it's more noticable due to the ages involved. It's weird because there's clearly sexual undertones to a lot of the fandom and it's mostly middle aged dudes aimed at younger females. Most are legal but when promotions are selling near-scuddies of underages then yeah... weird. You can't tell me people buy photobooks just to 'collect' them. Not the way they are marketed at all.

    This is why you have segregation in puro. The fanbase's desires just don't mesh. NJPW fans don't wanna see scantily clad girls having water fights and shit. Joshi will never be taken seriously on a grander scale unless things change but they won't because too many negative stereotypes about a captive fanbase. Not saying Joshi can't have great moments and the like because it does.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Preaching to the Choir Shake I agree with what you said totally. I feel like fandom in general has that to where you have those really dedicated fans, and theirs a group that have their own agendas, but for sure in Joshi is majorly obvious what is going on. I mean I own personally own a Photobook/Magazine I won in a Contest from Joshicity that has Io on the front, and yeah she's beautiful as well as the other ladies in the Magazine, but it's not like I'm jerking to the pics. You're never going to see me trying to a Hana Photobook and pay 100 bucks, or going to Shows giving underage girls a Chibi figure of them that I made. Question was Stardom like that during the days of Kairi, Io, and Mayu as Rookies, just wondering if this has been a prolong thing with them since the beginning? I'm asking about Stardom, because out of the rest of the Joshi Companies they dive into this way more than the others.

    It sucks that Joshi has this going on, and to me the reason I got into it because for the love for the Wrestling. Kairi got me into Stardom as a fan, Fujimoto in Ice Ribbon, Meiko in Sendai Girls and so on. I personally never thought in the back of my mind I should follow this for all the wrong reasons.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    I don't mean to shill here, but I would really advise listening to a show I did on Pure Heart about that episode because I talked to someone who lived in Japan and knew more about Japanese culture than all of us combined, and even for me, someone who has dated people who lived in Japan and still have people I know there and talk to often I have to say it's a bit offputting to read Japanese culture being talked about in this way. There are weirdos in every part of wrestling. Fuck, I've seen WAY more pervy stuff from women who are fans of NJPW than Male Stardom fans on Twitter. Hell, there were entire accounts dedicated to screenshotting pictures of SANADA's ass at one point and those same girls would be the first to point the finger at anyone who dared call a Joshi worker hot and call it gross. In the West how many weirdo WWE fans are there that perv out, to me you could easily find some abhorrent fanfictions about literally every person in WWE, Male or Female. That to me makes me more uncomfortable than some guy buying a photo book of someone. People are weird of any nationality and of any company and I don't think singling out Japan or Stardom fans is fair at all. Props to you Dave for being a bit more understanding.

    For the record in that doc, I didn't sense a single pervy air about Rossy. He came across like a completely detached and cold businessman, outside of the Mayu story where she lived with him which they portrayed as innocent. (We can only hope it's true and she did move out at least) The worst part was how he trashed AZM, a young girl publicly basically just to put Starlight Kid over which wasn't right to say publicly even if he felt that way, but not because he was a weirdo about it. It brought me back to every dick promoter in wrestling than anything.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Also Sonny didn't get fired. He was reassigned because they wanted to give it to a Japanese guy probably so they wouldn't have to deal with Japan/USA visas as much. The public support on Twitter got him back in, similar to Charlton in NJPW. Unlike Charlton though Sonny, for all his faults you could say about blocking people and having too short of a fuse and not being the nicest at times, was great at his job and we saw through one night of Stardom World tape that whoever replaced him wasn't ready for that translating gig. It was worse than Google translate and Sonny getting this worked out was a welcome return for nearly everyone.

    Reddit still totally sucks though.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I don't mean to shill here, but I would really advise listening to a show I did on Pure Heart about that episode because I talked to someone who lived in Japan and knew more about Japanese culture than all of us combined, and even for me, someone who has dated people who lived in Japan and still have people I know there and talk to often I have to say it's a bit offputting to read Japanese culture being talked about in this way. There are weirdos in every part of wrestling. Fuck, I've seen WAY more pervy stuff from women who are fans of NJPW than Male Stardom fans on Twitter. Hell, there were entire accounts dedicated to screenshotting pictures of SANADA's ass at one point and those same girls would be the first to point the finger at anyone who dared call a Joshi worker hot and call it gross. In the West how many weirdo WWE fans are there that perv out, to me you could easily find some abhorrent fanfictions about literally every person in WWE, Male or Female. That to me makes me more uncomfortable than some guy buying a photo book of someone. People are weird of any nationality and of any company and I don't think singling out Japan or Stardom fans is fair at all. Props to you Dave for being a bit more understanding.

    For the record in that doc, I didn't sense a single pervy air about Rossy. He came across like a completely detached and cold businessman, outside of the Mayu story where she lived with him which they portrayed as innocent. (We can only hope it's true and she did move out at least) The worst part was how he trashed AZM, a young girl publicly basically just to put Starlight Kid over which wasn't right to say publicly even if he felt that way, but not because he was a weirdo about it. It brought me back to every dick promoter in wrestling than anything.
    Of course there are weirdos in every part of wrestling but I do generally find idol culture a little off-putting. There's really nothing wrong with saying that and it's not at all different to saying I find other aspects of other cultures off-putting. Nothing wrong with other people enjoying it and being into whatever they're into. The difference between you describing NJPW and WWE like that is these promotions have massively diverse fanbases compared to alot of Joshi promotions. Yeah, I know someone too so my opinions aren't fully uneducated either. It is what it is at the end of the day. I do feel that this sort of stuff defines Stardom etc a little more than it does WWE and NJPW. Is it bad? No. It's just not for me really. Nobody has to defend why they like the wrestling that they do.

    I don't know why it's now a competition between what is more abhorrent and shit dawg. If you're creeped out more by weird ass fanfics than middle aged dudes buying photobooks (it's really soft gravure) potentially containing of minors or near-minors then okay. But they're both pretty creepy and whack so whatever. That's just a lot of whataboutery. You're correct that there's creepy aspects to like every wrestling fanbase though. No denying that as I said.

    Rossy definitely strikes me more as a businessman when I think about it. He does seem very cold and money driven. I don't think he's perverted or anything but I do think his morals can be a bit loose when there's bank to be made. Didn't he just let Yoshiko beat the fuck out of Act for instance? Overall, he's probably someone you want running your promotion. Ambitious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Also Sonny didn't get fired. He was reassigned because they wanted to give it to a Japanese guy probably so they wouldn't have to deal with Japan/USA visas as much. The public support on Twitter got him back in, similar to Charlton in NJPW. Unlike Charlton though Sonny, for all his faults you could say about blocking people and having too short of a fuse and not being the nicest at times, was great at his job and we saw through one night of Stardom World tape that whoever replaced him wasn't ready for that translating gig. It was worse than Google translate and Sonny getting this worked out was a welcome return for nearly everyone.

    Reddit still totally sucks though.
    That's interesting. I can't deny Sonny's passion for Stardom at all but he's borderline delusional at times. He reeks of arrogance and self-importance at times. I'm not sure if he was always like that but I thought he was pretty cool initially when he did the audio interviews. Lol if that was someone translating. It was embarrassing to read. But I think the argument was that Rossy wants to try and get more Japanese people into Stardom World. Maybe he thought having Japanglish would be easier for them to get. I don't know. Sonny can be extremely unprofessional at times though.
    Last edited by RainShaker; 08-30-2019 at 05:46 AM.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I don't mean to shill here, but I would really advise listening to a show I did on Pure Heart about that episode because I talked to someone who lived in Japan and knew more about Japanese culture than all of us combined, and even for me, someone who has dated people who lived in Japan and still have people I know there and talk to often I have to say it's a bit offputting to read Japanese culture being talked about in this way. There are weirdos in every part of wrestling. Fuck, I've seen WAY more pervy stuff from women who are fans of NJPW than Male Stardom fans on Twitter. Hell, there were entire accounts dedicated to screenshotting pictures of SANADA's ass at one point and those same girls would be the first to point the finger at anyone who dared call a Joshi worker hot and call it gross. In the West how many weirdo WWE fans are there that perv out, to me you could easily find some abhorrent fanfictions about literally every person in WWE, Male or Female. That to me makes me more uncomfortable than some guy buying a photo book of someone. People are weird of any nationality and of any company and I don't think singling out Japan or Stardom fans is fair at all. Props to you Dave for being a bit more understanding.
    While there might be pervy fans from every promotion just like there's perverts in any job in any country, the difference is Stardom caters to these fans with pajama partys and bikini photoshoots and using really young girls and what not and to other people it's too much, it's a really off putting look to have about a product. Western promotions have moved with the times a lot better to where women are portrayed a lot less sexually.

    You can use the explanation of 'it's the culture' if you want to stick up for a country you love and don't want to hear criticism of, that's fine, but it's not going to make it less gross in my eyes when I see Rossy with his hand around Xia Brookside doing a photoshoot in a tiny bikini. God knows the next time WWE goes to Saudi Arabia some defenders of Japanese culture on twitter are going to take shots at WWE for taking money from a country that doesn't allow women to perform even though 'that's their culture too'. It's not like the stuff Big Papa mentioned is a myth either, there are uncomfortable issues about gender and sexuality in Japanese culture.

    I'd agree though that Rossy came off more cold hearted and ruthless in his use of employees than a pervert.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    I'm not saying that I like idol culture or anything like that, but things turned into piling on and IMO let's just call it what it is, every wrestling company has fans like that. WWE put tons of women photoshoots out over the years in terms of video, online, etc., what's the difference? In terms of minors, that's a different discussion entirely and definitely reasonable to find offputting, though in fairness to the company the age of consent is lower in Japan and to my knowledge they have never done it with minors, but if so yes bikini shoots shouldn't be allowed at all. Really only Stardom and TJPW has company wide photo books, Ice has some but only of the main eventers really and it plays into Tsukka and Maya's background as idols anyway.

    100% agree on Rossy. Morally questionable and a callous business guy, at times for better or worse but worthy of criticism. I do think people jump to level 5 with him being a weirdo too quick though. Was not a fan of his comments on AZM at all in that episode and definitely will do questionable things for a buck.

    Think getting more Japanese in position is definitely what caused that snafu. I have seen that side of Sonmy a ton of times and he's definitely been unprofessional at times with his interactions with people. But just on a job level he does great work, and the one who did it last night was a horrible mistake. What's really weird and makes me think Visa shit had to do with it is why would they do this during the middle of the 5*GP, surely one of their best times for new subs and right before the end of the month? It was just stupid to do it if it was on purpose.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    While there might be pervy fans from every promotion just like there's perverts in any job in any country, the difference is Stardom caters to these fans with pajama partys and bikini photoshoots and using really young girls and what not and to other people it's too much, it's a really off putting look to have about a product. Western promotions have moved with the times a lot better to where women are portrayed a lot less sexually.

    You can use the explanation of 'it's the culture' if you want to stick up for a country you love and don't want to hear criticism of, that's fine, but it's not going to make it less gross in my eyes when I see Rossy with his hand around Xia Brookside doing a photoshoot in a tiny bikini. God knows the next time WWE goes to Saudi Arabia some defenders of Japanese culture on twitter are going to take shots at WWE for taking money from a country that doesn't allow women to perform even though 'that's their culture too'. It's not like the stuff Big Papa mentioned is a myth either, there are uncomfortable issues about gender and sexuality in Japanese culture.

    I'd agree though that Rossy came off more cold hearted and ruthless in his use of employees than a pervert.
    The only thing I love about Japan is their wrestling, I actually am not a fan on a personal level of a lot of the idol culture and even less the nationalistic tendencies that are prevalent. My problem is hating on them when clearly there are other companies that do the same stuff and prey on thirsty fans. NJPW released SHO & YOH photobooks in their underwear, Hiromu had a billboard for similar reasons. WWE has done all sorts of stuff of a similar vein in the past. I'm not hating on them for that either, from a business perspective there's an audience for it and it's not for me at all, but it just is what it is. I just don't understand what exactly is worse about Stardom than the numerous other companies that do the same stuff. And clearly the Japanese stuff is ingrained there and I would rather trust the people that grew up & lived their decades than us in the West and everyone jumping in was trending a bit too far IMO.

    Saudis Arabia is a different discussion because most people are more angry at the government committing atrocities on a regular basis and WWE running a commercial for their sultan 3 times a year is morally worse than every fanfiction or photobook there's ever been. But when Sasha and Alexa wrestled whatever country they were in and had to cover up I defended that too because it is a part of their culture and thought that people were too hard and borderline racist there too.


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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    Rossy clearly is a big tentacle porn enthusiast.

    I think there is an obvious difference between the creepy things NJ or WWE do/have done and the creepy things in joshi.

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    Re: Official Stardom and Friends Joshi Discussion

    It sucks were getting into subject that I joined in and something I've haven't seen talked about is the talent themselves. Sure the Promoters are doing the promoting with the Photobooks etc, but I wouldn't be lying to you if I said I didn't see at least one week, a Female or Male talent posing nearly nude and bringing those type of fans almost sometimes inviting them with the way they would tweet. Trust me I follow alot of Female Joshi ladies and it happens alot on my Timeline seeing a Talent showing off their goodies and saying buy this or that. So about that 5*Star Grand Prix going on, haven't seen Day 3 yet, but Utami has been turning it on hard with her Matches with Kyona and Hoshiki. Konami and Kagetsu's Match together was lovely as well can't wait to see how the rest of the tourney shapes up.

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