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Thread: TEW 2016

  1. #1081
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    Re: TEW 2016

    May or may not make a longer post later but....TVERSE is a million times more optimized for the game engine than the CVerse itself is. The TVERSE is a mod specifically optimized for the gane where as CVerse has been built up as both a) being a default option since you cant have rw mods built in and b) from the 04/05 game. TVerse didnt really come into its own completely until 13/16 so its much better optimized for how the game currently is and I think the modders put a lot more effort into making it work perfectky for TEW than Adam did with CVerse.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    May or may not make a longer post later but....TVERSE is a million times more optimized for the game engine than the CVerse itself is. The TVERSE is a mod specifically optimized for the gane where as CVerse has been built up as both a) being a default option since you cant have rw mods built in and b) from the 04/05 game. TVerse didnt really come into its own completely until 13/16 so its much better optimized for how the game currently is and I think the modders put a lot more effort into making it work perfectky for TEW than Adam did with CVerse.
    I WANT A LONGER POST TOO.

    Definitely T-verse. I would absolutely be using it for some workers. Meant to mention that in mah post and just forgot.

    I don't know if I would say its notably better optimized for the game, but I guess it depends on what you are looking at. The Tverse is more balanced for sure in the sense of having more companies at a lower level of national, meaning there is more room for growth, and they aren't really "too big to fail" either. It also has a bigger indy scene (which TEW just doesn't emulate all that well, and I'm not sure that will change for TEW 2020) and more indy workers, with more varied talent levels. They both decently create a game world where things unfold reasonably nicely - most bigger companies are stable, you don't have constant A* matches from every company, and so on. By unsourced observation, the Cverse has more top end matches due PGHW (product/talent combo) and SOTPW (talent/popularity) combo.

    Definitely curious why you think the Tverse is that much more optimized and balanced than the Cverse. I'm definitely open.

    The overall intent isn't to create a "perfect" mod or anything. I want a stable mod where the big companies put on shows that generally keep them at size, with New Japan obviously being more capable and likely of having those A* matches. Smaller companies would be as stable as possible (a concern due to the financial system in 2016), and with more indy worker options. It was partly due to the time period and partly due to being conservative, but if you go outside of ROH talent and former WWF/WCW/ECW workers, the 2K1 mod would be pretty barren for options for pretty good or better workers for an indy company.
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  3. #1083
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    Re: TEW 2016

    I've toyed with the idea of a custom mod based both on real life and the Cverse.

    It's been a WIP but the main idea is Big 4 in America, a family feud of companies in Canada, Mexico having a big one with small competitors, the British Isles split between England, Scotland, and Ireland vying for dominance, Europe having no companies, Japan having many small companies and no large one, and Australia having only local promotions.

  4. #1084
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    I WANT A LONGER POST TOO.

    Definitely T-verse. I would absolutely be using it for some workers. Meant to mention that in mah post and just forgot.

    I don't know if I would say its notably better optimized for the game, but I guess it depends on what you are looking at. The Tverse is more balanced for sure in the sense of having more companies at a lower level of national, meaning there is more room for growth, and they aren't really "too big to fail" either. It also has a bigger indy scene (which TEW just doesn't emulate all that well, and I'm not sure that will change for TEW 2020) and more indy workers, with more varied talent levels. They both decently create a game world where things unfold reasonably nicely - most bigger companies are stable, you don't have constant A* matches from every company, and so on. By unsourced observation, the Cverse has more top end matches due PGHW (product/talent combo) and SOTPW (talent/popularity) combo.

    Definitely curious why you think the Tverse is that much more optimized and balanced than the Cverse. I'm definitely open.

    The overall intent isn't to create a "perfect" mod or anything. I want a stable mod where the big companies put on shows that generally keep them at size, with New Japan obviously being more capable and likely of having those A* matches. Smaller companies would be as stable as possible (a concern due to the financial system in 2016), and with more indy worker options. It was partly due to the time period and partly due to being conservative, but if you go outside of ROH talent and former WWF/WCW/ECW workers, the 2K1 mod would be pretty barren for options for pretty good or better workers for an indy company.
    BHOTWG is always the big one that stands out to me because since literally day one of TEW 2016, Adam was being advised that the hiring for BHOTWG was a bit ridiculous and still it never felt like it got fixed. Their schedule makes no sense but they hire so furiously that they rot away so much amazing talent. There's no attempt on its part to compensate for the huge roster and the different schedule by adding more shows. It feels like it was never tested.

    The world also follows a fairly predictable pattern (TV may as well and I havent played often/long enough to notice), BHOTWG gets wrecked with PGHW possibly murdering it, but if not, WLW guaranteed taking over Japan. GCG is completely fucked.

    USPW will automatically run the world because of its coverage so ai TCW is guaranteed destined to Cult hell while SWF will compete for a while before eventually being set for the same. If you're a user, then the NB is completely trivial when all you have to do is sign Khoklov. SOTBPW will sign every big SWF star when they're on TD and push them to the moon all while wrecking the US up until USPW's coverage is too overwhelming. NOTBPW will 100% close their doors while their big Canadian stars head off to job in USPW one by one. CGC will stall at regional (maybe low cult). RAW will do amazing in Australia and nothing more. 21CW is a bit more unpredictable but can tend to fail because they dont have enough money. Maybe this was all deliberate but a lot of the things that happen feel less like natural progression and more like the world was set up without considering how the game world would effect it because the changes just dont feel like they make sense on paper. It's hard for me to point things out off the top of my head having not played it in months but one sticking point that always had me shaking my head was Matty Faith & Ranger rotting away in development because they cant lose the tag titles. How was that never noticed or fixed? That's not the game running correctly, or that's not the mod properly optimized.

    TVerse has always come across to me as how to make the RW work within the confines of TEW. It feels like a game that's been tested and doesn't have me scratching my head as the world develops. I think that TVerse would also make a better template for conversion to RW because there are many workers in it that are clear inspirations from the RW.

    I would appreciate it if CVerse was really altered for TEW 2020 with the game's functionalities & long term game play in mind and not feel like its been done as a last second thing. It's been 15+ years so really this is a chance to truly reinvent/modernize the game world now that we can move on past the stars of CV '05.

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Snow View Post
    BHOTWG is always the big one that stands out to me because since literally day one of TEW 2016, Adam was being advised that the hiring for BHOTWG was a bit ridiculous and still it never felt like it got fixed. Their schedule makes no sense but they hire so furiously that they rot away so much amazing talent. There's no attempt on its part to compensate for the huge roster and the different schedule by adding more shows. It feels like it was never tested.

    The world also follows a fairly predictable pattern (TV may as well and I havent played often/long enough to notice), BHOTWG gets wrecked with PGHW possibly murdering it, but if not, WLW guaranteed taking over Japan. GCG is completely fucked.

    USPW will automatically run the world because of its coverage so ai TCW is guaranteed destined to Cult hell while SWF will compete for a while before eventually being set for the same. If you're a user, then the NB is completely trivial when all you have to do is sign Khoklov. SOTBPW will sign every big SWF star when they're on TD and push them to the moon all while wrecking the US up until USPW's coverage is too overwhelming. NOTBPW will 100% close their doors while their big Canadian stars head off to job in USPW one by one. CGC will stall at regional (maybe low cult). RAW will do amazing in Australia and nothing more. 21CW is a bit more unpredictable but can tend to fail because they dont have enough money. Maybe this was all deliberate but a lot of the things that happen feel less like natural progression and more like the world was set up without considering how the game world would effect it because the changes just dont feel like they make sense on paper. It's hard for me to point things out off the top of my head having not played it in months but one sticking point that always had me shaking my head was Matty Faith & Ranger rotting away in development because they cant lose the tag titles. How was that never noticed or fixed? That's not the game running correctly, or that's not the mod properly optimized.

    TVerse has always come across to me as how to make the RW work within the confines of TEW. It feels like a game that's been tested and doesn't have me scratching my head as the world develops. I think that TVerse would also make a better template for conversion to RW because there are many workers in it that are clear inspirations from the RW.

    I would appreciate it if CVerse was really altered for TEW 2020 with the game's functionalities & long term game play in mind and not feel like its been done as a last second thing. It's been 15+ years so really this is a chance to truly reinvent/modernize the game world now that we can move on past the stars of CV '05.
    Ahh I understand what you mean. And I very much agree. In terms of game-world balance and companies and evolution, Cverse is rather... staid and predictable. You have USPW, SWF, and SOTBPW are all "too big too fail". And almost every other company in North America suffers for their aggressive hiring. TCW and NOTBW get fucked over since they can't build up new stars fast enough to replace those that they inevitably lose. The AI isn't proactive at building new stars. International growth just seems beyond the AI in some situations - which may be down to broadcasting options as much as anything else.

    The Tverse is a bit repetitive and predictable, but it doesn't feel quite as much. Over time, AWF will almost inevitable overtake PWI and steal their top stars. Mexico and Japan are a bit more varied, though not hugely. And the sheer amount of good indy talent means those companies seem to do reasonably well if they are losing to bigger companies. You don't seem to hit regional companies hit cult in short order with any consistency, but maybe they shouldn't.

    The company / game world balance will probably end up being somewhere between them. The WWE and New Japan will both be big enough to be "cannot fail" for the AI. I would like TNA to be iffy on long-term survival but they will probably be certain survival and growth.

    The worker / results balance is more what I'm interested in. I want the WWE to be able to grade well enough to stay at National / International. New Japan should be capable of hitting A* matches here and there. I want Dragon Gate to do well without being like WLW from a couple Cverse's ago where they were always dominant. I want British and European companies to have the ability to survive and do well.

    One of the things I dislike about 2K1 is that the indy scene is.... bleh. Which is pretty accurate. But until ROH and TNA open, there just isn't much there. But beyond the future ROH guys, there also isn't tons of talent that you could build around or expect to get a chance in a bigger company. That's my fault to a degree - I got caught up in the idea that if a worker was successful in reality, they would get skilled to be successful in the game world, and that negatively impacted some guys who never got a shot - which doesn't automatically mean they lacked the talent. With many more indy companies, those kind of workers are far easier to find and feel way more legit. If you have some indy guy who worked at Jersey All Pro and never moved above that, but in the game world, he has the talent to always get snapped up by the WWE.... that feels unlikely. And given the indy scene in 2K1, that would almost certainly be an "every safe" development if a worker was skilled to that level.

    Regarding the BHOTWG roster... I'm pretty sure that did get addressed in testing several times. And nerfed. So... yeah....
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    I've toyed with the idea of a custom mod based both on real life and the Cverse.

    It's been a WIP but the main idea is Big 4 in America, a family feud of companies in Canada, Mexico having a big one with small competitors, the British Isles split between England, Scotland, and Ireland vying for dominance, Europe having no companies, Japan having many small companies and no large one, and Australia having only local promotions.
    It could be interesting to have that diversity of options. There have been a few combined mods people have done over the years. Not my cup of tea, but could be fun to play.
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    Re: TEW 2016

    And we are FUCKING ROLLING.

    I imported around 50 companies from the 2013 RWC edit mod I was toying with. Just the companies. I will adjust their products and popularity later, but allows me to do contracts and employment history off the top.

    Started bashing around in the Cvers and Tverse. And started doing the import and editing.

    3 down.

    Yup, the fresh, from scratch mod now has 3 workers.

    Hulk Hogan - used Sam Strong (Cverse) as the base. Still had to do some editing as Hogan isn't as great on the mic (time decline) or as popular.
    Samoa Joe - used Atonga (Tverse) but adjusted his SQ (down), Technical skills (up) and Entertainment (up)
    Vince McMahon - made from scratch as that seemed as easy as anything

    The actual process isn't that painful. Once I import the worker, I just go through the details to adjust them - name, pic, nationality, etc. Have their Wiki page open so I can get the birth month/year and debut correct. Then add their Finisher so they have a moveset. Check and adjust the other aspects like Skills, Popularity, Personality. Then I can add their employment history (The Who still has a forum for the RW mod he does where a lot of worker details like this are listed out and that saves me time). I am not doing their bios yet, so that will be a chore for later.

    The intent isn't to pick a worker who is IDENTICAL to the real world one. I'm looking for someone who is similar in skillset, so that the adjusting minimized. In a way, it slots the worker into where they "should" be in the gameworld. It might not work big-picture.... but its more appealing than literally doing every worker from scratch to "accurate" skilling and then realizing that things don't run in an accurate way because whole groups of worker are skilled too high or too low.

    Picking who to use is going to be way more time-consuming than anything else. Mainly because there will be multiple good options for most workers. It can be tough to zero in on who fits "closest".

    Some ones I'm mulling:

    Funakoshi - Daisuke Sekimoto (would also work for Tomohiro Ishii)
    Eli Morton - Brock Lesnar (with a technical skill buff)
    Silva Dolla - John Cena (Jack DeColt would also work very well)
    Thunder Ieseda - Jushin Liger

    And probably a dozen more where I've picked out a likely candidate but can't recall the name of the worker right now. Some are tough, though. Like finding the right option for Jon Moxley or Will Osprey or Daniel Bryan.

    One thing I'm intrigued by but haven't looked at yet is finding workers similar to vets who are kicking about and still working here and there. The likes of Scott Steiner or Goldust. Even The Undertaker. Also interested to see what the indy scene could look like. Both the Cverse and Tverse have a lot of indy workers who are capable of stepping into a big company, talent-wise, but who lack the popularity. As I mentioned, I feel like in 2K1, too many of them flat out lacked the skill, so I would like to have more variety in that regard. Which should theoretically create some variance save-to-save on who gets snapped up by the bigger companies.

    In spending some time bashing through both the Cverse and the Tverse last night, I noticed a few other advantages to the Tverse....

    -less of a technical wrestling bias. It feels like the Cverse is less brawl-based as a whole and a bit more technical, which I don't think matches real wrestling as well.
    -women's wrestling scene is overall much stronger. The Cverse has strong workers on the joshi scene but far less on the American women's wrestling scene
    -subjective observation, but more workers who are skilled in Performance skills but have limited top row skills, meaning they are useful to certain promotions but are unlikely to ever be world class

    I might actually make a stand-alone thread about this to rant and rave and be read by no one but Jon.
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Between testing something and trying to finish watching the G1 before the end of the month, I still managed to put some time in last night. Up to about 20 workers. Haven't done any women yet and have mostly stuck to big names and workers I know reasonably well. Some workers are really easy to pick and others take some mulling.

    So far:

    Big Show - Hollywood Giant (Tverse)
    Brock Lesnar - Eli Morton (Tverse)
    Bryan Danielson - Angry Gilmore (Cverse)
    CM Punk - Seven Brandt (Tverse)
    Daisuke Sekimoto - Funakoshi (Cverse)
    Fenix - El Heroe Mexicano (Cverse)
    Hiroshi Tanahashi - Kintaro Kinjo (Tverse)
    Hulk Hogan - Sam Strong (Cverse)
    Kazuchika Okada - Masaru Ugaki (Cvese)
    Kota Ibushi - Magnum Kobe (Cverse)
    Roman Reigns - Steve Frehley (Cverse)
    Samoa Joe - Atonga (Tverse)
    The Rock - Timothy Hawk (Tverse)
    The Undertaker - Skull DeBones (Cverse)
    Triple H - Rich Money (Cverse)
    Walter - Raymond Diaz (Cverse)
    Will Ospreay - KC Glenn (Cverse)

    Have some others picked out that will probably be used, including AJ Styles (Sammy Bach), Tyler Black / Seth Rollins (Derek Rollins), Zack Sabre Jr (Graham McKenzie), and a few others. Quite a few who I've looked for (at least a bit) and yet to find someone who's skillset makes for a good starting template. The likes of Jon Moxley, Ronda Rousey, KENTA, Kurt Angle, Matt Riddle, Johnny Gargano, and well.... a lot of others.

    If you are reading this, Jon, I am very open to suggestions

    As I mentioned, everyone is getting edited, so I doubt anyone would look at one of these and immediately think of who provided the skillset template.

    Walter and Ospreay were both toned down from their base import skillsets, but are still both a bit overpowered. Ospreay was only a year in at that point and Walter had a few years in but I'm not sure he was quite this good yet. But I would rather they both be a bit OP than be generic like they are in some mods. Walter was on a lot of WOTY shortlists last year and Ospreay was running away with it this year, so I'd rather have them be at that level a bit too early. Kenta Miyahara is another one who will probably be a bit OP. Where the mod starts, he was close to joining All Japan, but I might move that up and have him start the mod there.

    As I've mentioned, I really want a more vibrant and skillful indy scene. I feel like 2K1 suffered for that a bit, and so do many other RW mods, especially current day ones. Most of the attention is paid to the big companies and already known workers. Which is completely understandable. But a generic midcarder for the WWE is probably going to get more attention and more skill than an indy midcard guy who is realistically probably a similar a wrestler. Which is not to say every indy worker is going to get Cs and Bs across the board. Just that there will be SOME. Someone like HARASHIMA will be a very good worker, not a guy with D across the board because he's with DDT. Takashi Sugiura will be damned good. The lucha scene definitely suffered on 2K1. That needs to be stronger. So does the women's scene (which was realistically pretty meager back at the turn of the century, compared to more modern).

    Also realized that I am totally going to import non-wrestlers, whether its from the 2K1 mod or the 2013 RWC base. Refs, retired workers / road agents, announcers, and owners / bookers. No real reason not to and will just save time.

    If this works out the way I would like, I could end up doing a 2009 version, too. With some of the announced 2020 features, it sounds like moving a mod back in time will be significantly easier.
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  9. #1089

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Remind me again what this is that you're building, BP? And why are you importing T and C Verse characters to do it, rather than the wrestlers themselves, just from different mods?

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Remind me again what this is that you're building, BP? And why are you importing T and C Verse characters to do it, rather than the wrestlers themselves, just from different mods?
    Creating a 2013 mod from a different direction, basically.

    I want to play a RW mod from a specific period and there isn't one, so I started messing around with a partially finished database. Basically, I asked around and one of the Real World Chronicles guys had an early, incomplete version of the mod from back in later 2013. I was messing with that, but it required two steps. The first was importing all the companies and workers that were missing - which was quite a bit, since anyone who debuted after 2013 was obviously missing, but also a load of workers who hadn't really established themselves yet. The second step would then be editing - the workers, the company popularity levels, etc - because I don't necessarily love how the RWC is balanced in those terms. Its not just about who shows up where on the Top 500 workers list in-game, but what workers and what companies are putting on killer matches regularly. When John Cena is consistently the best worker in the mod, something seems a bit off to me. I've been toying with this for literally years and its just a load of work.

    The idea with importing Cverse and Tverse workers (and then editing them to be someone else) was essentially one of scaling. Both mods have a nice balance in regard to workers, scaling, popularity, and so on. So instead of importing the same worker for another mod (later RCW, for example) then editing them and then editing them again if I don't quite like how they are fitting into the gameworld, I find someone who already inhabits that space in the gameworld. So if I want a world class puroresu star, I find one in the Cverse who I know already delivers strong matches in that mod, import them, edit it to be Kazuchka Okada, and then tweak the attributes to fit the worker a bit better. Doing this across the entire mod - or mostly all of it - should result in an overall mod with a fairly similar worker balance.

    Hope I'm explaining it reasonably. Make sense?
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Creating a 2013 mod from a different direction, basically.

    I want to play a RW mod from a specific period and there isn't one, so I started messing around with a partially finished database. Basically, I asked around and one of the Real World Chronicles guys had an early, incomplete version of the mod from back in later 2013. I was messing with that, but it required two steps. The first was importing all the companies and workers that were missing - which was quite a bit, since anyone who debuted after 2013 was obviously missing, but also a load of workers who hadn't really established themselves yet. The second step would then be editing - the workers, the company popularity levels, etc - because I don't necessarily love how the RWC is balanced in those terms. Its not just about who shows up where on the Top 500 workers list in-game, but what workers and what companies are putting on killer matches regularly. When John Cena is consistently the best worker in the mod, something seems a bit off to me. I've been toying with this for literally years and its just a load of work.

    The idea with importing Cverse and Tverse workers (and then editing them to be someone else) was essentially one of scaling. Both mods have a nice balance in regard to workers, scaling, popularity, and so on. So instead of importing the same worker for another mod (later RCW, for example) then editing them and then editing them again if I don't quite like how they are fitting into the gameworld, I find someone who already inhabits that space in the gameworld. So if I want a world class puroresu star, I find one in the Cverse who I know already delivers strong matches in that mod, import them, edit it to be Kazuchka Okada, and then tweak the attributes to fit the worker a bit better. Doing this across the entire mod - or mostly all of it - should result in an overall mod with a fairly similar worker balance.

    Hope I'm explaining it reasonably. Make sense?
    Yeah, it makes sense in those terms. How long do you expect that to take? I mean, will it be worth it to put all that work in with TEW 2020 around the corner?

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    Re: TEW 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    Yeah, it makes sense in those terms. How long do you expect that to take? I mean, will it be worth it to put all that work in with TEW 2020 around the corner?
    Rough estimate... fuck of a long time? Its a long project either which way its done.

    Mods can be ported from old version to new version, so once 2020 is release, I will convert and keep chugging away. The process is generally pretty streamlined. On the conversion from TEW 2013 to 2016, the main thing that had to be edited was the broadcasters. Without adding the "Must Cover Home" to smaller broadcasters, almost every company could get broadcast deals all over the place. There was a lot of other stuff to be adjusted but that was all pretty much cosmetic rather than game-breaking.
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    Re: TEW 2016

    Up to almost 50 workers now. Almost all of those are active wrestlers, and generally a lot of the better wrestlers in the world. I could easily swell it by probably 200 by adding a bunch of non-wrestlers and retired wrestlers / road agents, but not yet. At this point, I'm not being systematic about adding workers from one company or area, just picking and choosing as I find someone who makes a nice base and then editing them in. Still going to require some tweaking afterward, especially popularity. For example, I just added the Young Bucks and realized their US popularity is too high and needs to be nerfed.

    One of the hardest small decisions is who should go in under their best-known (but likely trade-marked) name and who should go in under an indy name. A lot of the younger workers (Seth Rollins, Bayley, Sasha Banks, etc), have gone in under their indy name. The Undertaker, Big Show, and Triple H have gone in under those names. I'm still mulling whether Roman Reigns should be under that or Joe Anoia.

    I don't like that I can't really properly test things yet. if I tried running a test save, the game would have to spit out a bunch of randomly generated wrestlers, which would get hired to fill in roster, and that wouldn't really give me much of a picture on how these talents simulate. But I knew that going in, so I can't bitch too much.

    I'm still wanting to pick out a few workers who are almost always underrated in most mods. Particularly in places in like Mexico and Europe. Some of those who I've added already - Takashi Sugiura, Taijiri Ishimori, Tomohiro Ishii, WALTER, Fenix - are often left as kinda average in some RW mods. They are decided not average in this. I have a few others picked out that are similar - Cavenario, Rush, HARASHIMA, Hechicero, Volador Jr - who are often underrated. Not to say they will necessarily be world class, elite talents. But good to very good. My knowledge of the Mexican scene is somewhat lacking, which bugs me and why I feel like that area suffered in the 2K1 mod.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



  14. #1094
    Big Papa's Avatar

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    Re: TEW 2016

    The social media stuff that's been announced for TEW 2020 in the past week sounds quite interesting. Something else for you to have to deal with and something that should add depth to the gameworld. I dig it.
    EVERY ENDING IS A NEW BEGINNING.
    YOUR LUCKY NUMBER IS NONE.
    YOUR LUCKY COLOUR IS DEAD.
    Motto:
    LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON.



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