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Thread: The Ask Jim Thread

  1. #2781
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    How come Edge as Mr SmackDown?

    When I think of Mr SmackDown the first guys that come to mind are Undertaker, Rey and Angle ahead of Edge.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    I'm here for this. I also endorse Edge as Smackdown MVP. His initial run where he was killing it in tag teams plus the feud with Angle, then when he returned and the whole show revolved around him for a couple of years even though he had Batista and Taker on the same show make him a pretty solid pick.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Edge joined SD in 2007 for the first time so him being the Mr Smackdown doesn't make any sense.

  4. #2784

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    How come Edge as Mr SmackDown?

    When I think of Mr SmackDown the first guys that come to mind are Undertaker, Rey and Angle ahead of Edge.

    It's Edge. The biggest heel in SD history. Unlike the others that have been connected to SD, Edge's career seems to resemble the show a decent amount. Edge first got over right about the time that SD was started up. When SD was pushed harder as its own brand, Edge emerged as someone who received one of the bigger pushes thanks to the brand extension. Once SD was forced to change with Brock leaving the company, I feel as if for many years, they struggled to have a proper #1 heel that didn't feel forceful and was one of the top guys in the company. They had plenty of top babyfaces like Taker, Batista, and Mysterio, but Edge felt special to the point where whenever he was injured or on Raw, SD felt like it was lacking something (With JBL, Khali, Kane, ect as "Top" heel instead). Taker is a major star in SD history, but I just see him as a major star for the WWE in general, not just SD. Edge feels more unique to the SD brand.

    I know Edge isn't the most popular, but I really struggle to see how people can not think that Edge was at least one of the biggest names in SD history.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AlistairCook View Post
    Edge joined SD in 2007 for the first time so him being the Mr Smackdown doesn't make any sense.
    He was there in 2002.

    i would think of Taker, Rey and AJ before Edge tbh. Edge’s biggest moments came on the raw brand.

  6. #2786

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Edge’s biggest moments came on the raw brand.
    Outside of Edge's cash-in and the Live Sex Celebration, I think about his moments on Smackdown far more than I think about anything he did on Raw.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Lita made Edge what he is known for so his biggest moments came on RAW and not SD. He was quite shit on SD, to be honest. That stupid Vickie storyline and ADR feud was a pain to the eyes.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Oh yeah, Taker would be Mr Smackdown before Edge IMO. He was on SD since mid 2002, had most of his best moments whilst on SD and he was on top of the card for most of the time.
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Outside of Edge's cash-in and the Live Sex Celebration, I think about his moments on Smackdown far more than I think about anything he did on Raw.
    I feel like those two things are the most notable moments of his career and they came as a Raw superstar, not to mention the biggest feud of his career was the Cena one as a Raw superstar. Also, I'm sorry but the last two years of his career on SD he was dreadful with the Vickie stuff and Del Rio. Edge to me spent too much time on Raw to be considered Mr Smackdown given the competition.

    Meanwhile, every big moment of AJ Styles' WWE career has come while he's been a Smackdown superstar and that's the only brand he's been exclusive to. One of his characteristics is that SD is the house that he built. He's got a bigger claim than Edge for me.
    Last edited by Ed; 11-09-2018 at 08:35 PM.

  10. #2790

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    Oh yeah, Taker would be Mr Smackdown before Edge IMO. He was on SD since mid 2002, had most of his best moments whilst on SD and he was on top of the card for most of the time.
    In fairness, when was Taker not at the top of the card? Whether Taker was involved in a title program or just in a big grudge feud, Taker has been at the top of the WWE card since...1991ish. Best moments is pretty debatable to me since he had such a long career that so many of his biggest and best moments happened before SD was even a show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I feel like those two things are the most notable moments of his career and they came as a Raw superstar, not to mention the biggest feud of his career was the Cena one as a Raw superstar. Also, I'm sorry but the last two years of his career on SD he was dreadful with the Vickie stuff and Del Rio. Edge to me spent too much time on Raw to be considered Mr Smackdown given the competition.
    When it comes to Edge's biggest singles feud, I think I lean more towards Taker than Cena.

    Was Edge's last couple of years good? To me, it's sorta irrelevant. Especially everything with Vickie was a big part of SD back in the day. It's like watching the original version of DX in 2018. Is it good? Absolutely not, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a big deal.

    Meanwhile, every big moment of AJ Styles' WWE career has come while he's been a Smackdown superstar and that's the only brand he's been exclusive to. One of his characteristics is that SD is the house that he built. He's got a bigger claim than Edge for me.
    Keep in mind who you're debating. Has Styles had a big career on SD? Maybe, but it's not as if I've seen really any of it. I'm not going to debate you that Styles is a bigger SD star than Edge, but it's not so much because I agree or disagree, but that he's a non-entity for me.
    Last edited by Jim; 11-09-2018 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    In fairness, when was Taker not at the top of the card? Whether Taker was involved in a title program or just in a big grudge feud, Taker has been at the top of the WWE card since...1991ish. Best moments is pretty debatable to me since he had such a long career that so many of his biggest and best moments happened before SD was even a show.
    Admittedly I'm biased because I grew up watching Taker on SD so they are probably my favourite moments rather than his best . But still, I would associate SD with Undertaker more than Edge. Edge would be second on the list but Taker is hard to beat.
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  12. #2792

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    Admittedly I'm biased because I grew up watching Taker on SD so they are probably my favourite moments rather than his best . But still, I would associate SD with Undertaker more than Edge. Edge would be second on the list but Taker is hard to beat.
    For me, I think it's simply that I had been watching Taker for so many years before he joined the SD brand that there had already been talks for a few years about a possible Taker retirement by that point. Taker on SD was just his final couple of years in the business that kept dragging on and on to the point that he's still sorta a wrestler 16 years later.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    For me, I think it's simply that I had been watching Taker for so many years before he joined the SD brand that there had already been talks for a few years about a possible Taker retirement by that point. Taker on SD was just his final couple of years in the business that kept dragging on and on to the point that he's still sorta a wrestler 16 years later.
    I remember thinking how cool it was to see Taker live last time I went to a WWE show, as he'll probably retire soon.



    That was in 2009.

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  14. #2794

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Postman Dave View Post
    I remember thinking how cool it was to see Taker live last time I went to a WWE show, as he'll probably retire soon.



    That was in 2009.

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    Back in 2004, the big rumor for why Taker was returning to the Deadman gimmick was that he wanted to end his career as the Deadman. I imagine it's a lot like Sting where Taker always just played it by ear each year and before anyone knew it, he had been around for an extra twenty years since the retirement talks first started to pop up.

    Taker is someone who I feel is a great example of someone prolonging the end of their career by slowing down. It began in 2002 with the seemingly yearly breaks he'd take where he'd be gone for a few months. House shows became a lot more rare. The yearly breaks extended further to the point where sometimes all he'd work was Wrestlemania. His matches became more smoke and mirror showcases rather than straight up matches. Had he remained a full timer, he likely would have been done by the mid 2000s.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    What about Chris Benoit? He was treated as the #3 guy, always had great matches, and was always known as a SmackDown guy, even on RAW and ECW.

  16. #2796

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Barrows View Post
    What about Chris Benoit? He was treated as the #3 guy, always had great matches, and was always known as a SmackDown guy, even on RAW and ECW.
    As far as being Smackdown MVP? Benoit was an amazing talent and the quality of the brand often directly changed whenever Benoit would switch brands. The thing is though, he was never a leader on SD. How can he get a vote as SD MVP when he was never a World Champion on the brand? To me, Benoit was more of an individual years MVP than just a brand MVP. He was easily the MVP of 2004. You could make a case for both 2001 and 2002, despite missing half of the year for both. I'd compare Benoit to someone like Mick Foley, who was a really important secondary character to the real MVPs of brands/companies.

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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Let's go old school in a sense and I've been wondering since I really enjoyed the rewatch of Steamboat/Rude from Beach Blast 92, what are some Matches I should check out from both men that alot of people don't know enough about or seen like that that you liked?

    I've seen the Matches with Steamboat with Flair, but what other Matches should I check out from him during his NWA/WCW run or maybe even before that you recommend.
    Last edited by Kairi HoHo; 12-06-2018 at 11:44 PM.

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  18. #2798

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairi HoHo View Post
    Let's go old school in a sense and I've been wondering since I really enjoyed the rewatch of Steamboat/Rude from Beach Blast 92, what are some Matches I should check out from both men that alot of people don't know enough about or seen like that that you liked?

    I've seen the Matches with Steamboat with Flair, but what other Matches should I check out from him during his NWA/WCW run or maybe even before that you recommend.
    I mean, it's Ricky Steamboat. He had a shit load of great matches. Check out my archive to past reviews or just the star ratings doc link that's in the first post of the archive tread. It's why I keep an archive and google doc link on the site.

  19. #2799
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    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Should he have won the Rumble ? If yes, which year and why ? If no, why not ?

    - Rikishi
    - Chris Jericho
    - Big Show
    - Kane

  20. #2800

    Re: The Ask Jim Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Loocha Bear View Post
    Should he have won the Rumble ? If yes, which year and why ? If no, why not ?
    Kind of an unique question. I dig it.

    - Rikishi
    Nah. The only two years it would have been a possibility were 2000 or 2001. In 2000, I'd say the problem is simply that January was just before the peak of Too Cool Rikishi's peak popularity. Had the Rumble been a few months later, it may have worked well with Rikishi's popularity growing more and more and him scoring a major match against Triple H at WM for the WWE Title. In 2001, it's a strong no simply for how Rikishi had been booked since his heel turn. If the WWE had been serious about the heel turn and was presenting Rikishi as this new top monster of the WWE, it may have worked. The fact that The Rock was going to go into WM as WWE Champion would have made even more sense with Rikishi being the challenger. I don't know if it's quite Mania worthy, but Rock/Rikishi WWE Title and the Austin/Hunter 3 stages of hell blow off match together would have felt like a big enough PPV to me. Like I said though, with how the WWE treated Rikishi after his heel turn, giving him the Rumble win would have been insanity.

    - Chris Jericho
    No. Obviously the easiest year to give Jericho the win was in 2012, but to this day, I still feel as if Sheamus was the better pick. Sheamus was the one who was going to win a title at Wrestlemania, he needed more help to be established as a proper main eventer, and he was the one the WWE saw as someone to be pushed as the #2 babyface in the company behind just Cena. Eighteen seconds sorta ruined that, but it was still a plan.

    - Big Show
    No. Show would have been a waste of a Rumble win with how often he was turned from heel to face and back again and then sometimes he'd be serious and other times he'd be a comedy goof. Show was rarely ever pushed too hard going into a Wrestlemania. The easiest year to give him a year would have been 2009 since he was in a title match at Mania anyways, but still seems like a waste.

    - Kane
    No. Why would you ever waste a Rumble win and a Wrestlemania title shot on Kane? Kane is a guy who it seemed like he only got title shots at B PPVs, let alone at the biggest A PPV of the year. If he was to win the Rumble and go on to challenge for the title, I think 2000 would have been the year to go with it. Have it be the final step in Kane getting revenge for Triple H/DX causing his little buddy, X-Pac, to dessert him at the end of 1999. After destroying X-Pac, Kane can injure Billy Gunn since Gunn legitimately got injured in early 2000, defeat Road Dogg at some point, and then win the WWE Title at WM 2000. Kane winning the Rumble and going to Wrestlemania is all about alternative booking.
    ---

    Off of the top of my head, a couple of my top picks for guys who should have won a Rumble, but never did include Ted DiBiase (1989), Ryback (2013), and Daniel Bryan (2014). Since the Rumble still has this damn prize of a Mania title shot, your options will forever remain drastically short which results in the likes of Kane or The Big Show never being decent options.

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