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Thread: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Aoki had tailed off the last 2 years or so, but he still had a great career overall, and was a glue guy and memorable part of NOAH. His AJPW run started off great, he was someone who brought the Jr. Title back, then through stale booking and questionable Bret Hart cosplay, he tailed off and lost a step, but man...41 years old is way too young to go. I hate this a lot and such a tragic way to go. Sad.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Awful news about Aoki, actually really gutted to hear that. Was a big fan of his rookie years. RIP

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Anything worth seeing off Fortune Dream?

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    what even is

    Fortune Dream 6 Special Talk Battle: Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Maeda - Time Limit Draw

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Steventon View Post
    what even is

    Fortune Dream 6 Special Talk Battle: Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Maeda - Time Limit Draw
    Basically just an interview between Kobashi and his guest. Last year it was with Masahiro Chono. Kawada did one with Marufuji and Nakajima on one of his produce shows. You can find transcripts of translations if you look hard enough.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Enjoyed PAC/Ben K from Kobe World, but I don't think it was a great match. There was elements I enjoyed like PAC teasing the national anthem sneak attack, a welcome slower pace compared to standard DG matches, Ben K's spear through the ropes comeback, but then you've gotta put up with a bunch of RED interference and a ref bump, and I'll be honest I don't think Ben K really showed that much emotion in his face during this match and took a lot of offence and these are two things routinely put against Kiyomiya as GHC Champion as reasons why he's not performing as an ace, and I bet I'm about to hear a bunch of podcasts praise Ben K as being the new ace of DG and way better than T-Hawk. Lets just see where we are in a few months.

    PAC's done great for them as champ, really steadied the ship after Shingo jumped.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Funnily enough I had that same thought about Kiyomiya haters that I'm certain some voices out there will conveniently forget when talking about how epic that match was and how great Ben-K is. But it's established using any sensible standard that anyone who thinks Kiyomiya isn't doing a great job as champion is using outdated opinions anyway.

    I thought the semi-main ttriple threat tag was significantly better. KAI in another company's best match of the year. The whole show wasn't as "DG" as I would have expected but those 6 brought it. I also loved the Ultimo Dragon match as a spectacle, Horiguchi crying on commentary was a legit moment. The whole show felt like a big time spectacle if nothing else. I thought way better than even something like WK.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    Enjoyed PAC/Ben K from Kobe World, but I don't think it was a great match. There was elements I enjoyed like PAC teasing the national anthem sneak attack, a welcome slower pace compared to standard DG matches, Ben K's spear through the ropes comeback, but then you've gotta put up with a bunch of RED interference and a ref bump, and I'll be honest I don't think Ben K really showed that much emotion in his face during this match and took a lot of offence and these are two things routinely put against Kiyomiya as GHC Champion as reasons why he's not performing as an ace, and I bet I'm about to hear a bunch of podcasts praise Ben K as being the new ace of DG and way better than T-Hawk. Lets just see where we are in a few months.

    PAC's done great for them as champ, really steadied the ship after Shingo jumped.
    I agree that Ben-K and PAC was a good match but it never hit the top level. I can understand the feeling of the match being overbooked and things like that though I kinda understand why RED had to interfere and weird shit had to happen. I guess they were trying to make Ben-K overcome a shit ton of adversity. I get what they were going for and I felt it clicked but it also didn't. On that level, I think it succeeded more compared to when T-Hawk was getting the push. The crowd were never invested in T-Hawk as with Ben-K. I would hesitate to call him a new ace but he has a better shot at it than T-Hawk ever did. Can't comment on Kiyomiya and that situation really but I think comparing Kiyomiya and Ben-K is silly considering their promotions' vast difference in audience and product.

    Taking a lot of offence is a bit silly to use as a criticism of anyone as an ace. An ace's job is to make their opponent look great in the match whilst still overcoming them. Anyone using reasoning like that to take away from Kiyomiya or Ben-K or any other potential ace doesn't know what they're talking about. Not seen much of Kiyomiya recently so can't comment on the emotion but Ben-K did have his moments with some fire here and there, I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Funnily enough I had that same thought about Kiyomiya haters that I'm certain some voices out there will conveniently forget when talking about how epic that match was and how great Ben-K is. But it's established using any sensible standard that anyone who thinks Kiyomiya isn't doing a great job as champion is using outdated opinions anyway.

    I thought the semi-main ttriple threat tag was significantly better. KAI in another company's best match of the year. The whole show wasn't as "DG" as I would have expected but those 6 brought it. I also loved the Ultimo Dragon match as a spectacle, Horiguchi crying on commentary was a legit moment. The whole show felt like a big time spectacle if nothing else. I thought way better than even something like WK.

    Is Kiyomiya doing a great job as champion? Genuine question as I haven't paid attention to NOAH in ages. I think people are far too quick to start slapping 'Ace' tags on people just because they win their first world title and look like they could go a long way. Kiyomiya isn't the ace yet and won't be for a while but that doesn't mean he won't have the makings of an ace on his journey. Same with Ben-K. This shit takes time. I don't get why anyone would even feel the need to compare Ben-K and Kiyomiya in the first place. It's just silly. Kiyomiya should be benchmarked against previous attempts at trying to create a new ace in NOAH (Nakajima for example) and Ben-K should be benchmarked against older DG dudes. Makes sense since both companies have a bunch of fans who are struggling to let go of the past.

    I agree that the semi main was the best match. One of the matches that typifies why I love DG so much. Just pure craziness.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    NOAH just did some of their best attendances since SZKG and pre under his watch (although he didn't main event the tag League final his team was arguably the biggest hook throughout the tournament and it's led to the top story of the fed right now with him & Kenoh). I think it's reasonable to compare them in a direct aspect of their matches such as what we were talking about when clearly Kaito's detractors go to that often and many of those same people will turn a blind eye if Ben-K's match is guilty of the same.

    Kaito is the Ace of NOAH & Ben-K is of DG. It almost is by default because in both cases everyone else who would be viable is too old at this point and they don't have anyone else ready. DG has Ishida and Skywalker who is a good core and NOAH has Inamura who might be the best rookie in wrestling if AJPW Okada doesn't count, plus Okada of their own who is a good worker but needs to grow. If anything giving Kaito his second win over Sugiura on Misawa's show was as explicit as saying "this is the leader of the company now" as you can have. In DG they actually built to Ben-K much better so really they had time. You can argue Kaito was too soon but he was all they had left and it's worked out well. Just look at this month. The reason they can bring Hideki AND Sakuraba in now (you can argue the merits of bringing broken down Saku in rightly but that's not relevant to this point) is because business is much better during Kaito's reign. We'll see just how over he is as the man when they run Sumo in a few months but it never would have even been thought about under Nakajima's watch.

    I think both Kaito and Ben-K will be very successful in their respective roles when it's all said and done and anticipate them leading them for years to come.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Re: PAC vs Ben-K

    I didn't like the match itself as I found it pretty boring when PAC was on offence but they did a great job of establishing Ben-K as the guy. Big match entrance. Felt like a star coming out of the match. Post match promo. He has all the most of the components you would think DG needs in a top guy - good singles and tag wrestler, young, a leader, looks tough, physically attractive. I would say promos but the crowd reacted strongly to his Kobe World promo, so he don't have to worry about that. Will it last? Maybe, I think the booking for the next months will be telling. He has the feuds in place to be success against Eita, Big R, etc.

    Re: Kaito as Ace

    I think Kaito has been fine as an individual but my interest in NOAH isn't as high as it was in 2018 or 2017. Maybe that's on the company as a whole rather than him because his title matches have been good. Even the latest Sugiura match was a good/solid match at worst. I personally think he feels too much like an up and comer and less like that 'guy' to be that stand out ace right now. That'll come with experience and maybe one or two more title reigns.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    NOAH just did some of their best attendances since SZKG and pre under his watch (although he didn't main event the tag League final his team was arguably the biggest hook throughout the tournament and it's led to the top story of the fed right now with him & Kenoh). I think it's reasonable to compare them in a direct aspect of their matches such as what we were talking about when clearly Kaito's detractors go to that often and many of those same people will turn a blind eye if Ben-K's match is guilty of the same.

    Kaito is the Ace of NOAH & Ben-K is of DG. It almost is by default because in both cases everyone else who would be viable is too old at this point and they don't have anyone else ready. DG has Ishida and Skywalker who is a good core and NOAH has Inamura who might be the best rookie in wrestling if AJPW Okada doesn't count, plus Okada of their own who is a good worker but needs to grow. If anything giving Kaito his second win over Sugiura on Misawa's show was as explicit as saying "this is the leader of the company now" as you can have. In DG they actually built to Ben-K much better so really they had time. You can argue Kaito was too soon but he was all they had left and it's worked out well. Just look at this month. The reason they can bring Hideki AND Sakuraba in now (you can argue the merits of bringing broken down Saku in rightly but that's not relevant to this point) is because business is much better during Kaito's reign. We'll see just how over he is as the man when they run Sumo in a few months but it never would have even been thought about under Nakajima's watch.

    I think both Kaito and Ben-K will be very successful in their respective roles when it's all said and done and anticipate them leading them for years to come.
    Yes, it's entirely fair to compare them in those aspects for sure if you want. I guess the point I was making is that if people are comparing as Aces. It's pointless because being the Ace of NOAH is completely different to being the Ace of DG. Ben-K and Kaito aren't the same and one will lack in qualities compared to the other as they grow into their roles.

    I'm not really down on NOAH because I don't watch them but if they're doing things like that then they must be getting somewhat better. I think Kaito felt a little rushed to me in his role but if the crowd are behind him then he's well on the way. Yes, Ben-K was built to very well but his title reign will solidify his position, I think.


    Quote Originally Posted by MC 16 View Post
    Re: PAC vs Ben-K

    I didn't like the match itself as I found it pretty boring when PAC was on offence but they did a great job of establishing Ben-K as the guy. Big match entrance. Felt like a star coming out of the match. Post match promo. He has all the most of the components you would think DG needs in a top guy - good singles and tag wrestler, young, a leader, looks tough, physically attractive. I would say promos but the crowd reacted strongly to his Kobe World promo, so he don't have to worry about that. Will it last? Maybe, I think the booking for the next months will be telling. He has the feuds in place to be success against Eita, Big R, etc.

    Re: Kaito as Ace

    I think Kaito has been fine as an individual but my interest in NOAH isn't as high as it was in 2018 or 2017. Maybe that's on the company as a whole rather than him because his title matches have been good. Even the latest Sugiura match was a good/solid match at worst. I personally think he feels too much like an up and comer and less like that 'guy' to be that stand out ace right now. That'll come with experience and maybe one or two more title reigns.

    This is pretty much what I think about Ben-K.

    Kaito still feels like a young boy to me a little bit or at least he did when I watched. I'd maybe need to watch some recent stuff. Him as champion just didn't draw my interest as much as Kenoh being champion did.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    I love Kaito's champion coat they had and in general I love his 90's AJPW influence. But it's fair to say it was too soon, dude's super young.

    Who do you guys think would be a better choice than Ben-K?


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Random puro question... anyone know the specific reasons that Sanada left AJPW in 2013?
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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    He left because of the AJPW/W-1 split that year. Same as the others.


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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    He left because of the AJPW/W-1 split that year. Same as the others.
    I did some more digging after I posted and realized that it was related to Exodus 2.0. Thanks. Tried to get back in here to edit the question but this thread is acting funky

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    playing catch up on recent Big Japan, and the Okabayashi, Kamitani & Hash Jr vs Sato, Nomura & Abe 6-man from 7/30 rocks hard. Everyone plays their roles and brings it. Abe is a wonderful shitbird getting in loads of sneaky shot and getting destroyed for it. Nomura brings out some fire in Daichi and has more great stuff with Ok. Sato has a great pairing with Kamitani and gets set up as Ok's next challenger really well. This is vintage NOAH shit. Not sure the title match will be much good as Sato is much better in tags, but I'll have to hunt that down over the weekend maybe.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    I'm just making this post to try and figure out how you dummies broke this thread.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Good to see it's not just me that the thread is playing up for.

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    I fixed it, now back to my vacation.

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    I FIXED THEM NOW SUCK ME

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    Re: The Official Puro Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed View Post
    I fixed it, now back to my vacation.
    hey I was just about to do something useful.


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