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Thread: Thoughts On.... #6

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    Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?

    - Andre The Giant

    - Steve Blackman

    - The Colony

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?

    - Cibernetico matches

    - Kai En Tai/KDX

    - Stevie Ray

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    It's fine if it's not overly done. It's only really bad when a guy like Russo does it multiple times at one time or he keeps booking the champions into that sort of role.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    A great indy talent, his Pure Title reign, but as a guy that never lived up to his expectations (Long term success in the big times).

    - Andre The Giant
    Best giant in wrestling history. Even when his health was at a terrible time, he knew how to work a match like a star. Where's the damn DVD set, WWE?!

    - Steve Blackman
    For some unknown reason, I really dug Blackman in 1998. Blackman failed due to having the charisma of a rock.

    - The Colony
    Love the faction. Soldier Ant was one of my favorites in CHIKARA when I first started watching the company in 2008.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    I guess this means being around longer than a year? I suppose RVD vs Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven 1999.

    - Cibernetico matches
    I dig the concept, but I haven't had the patience to sit through any all the way through.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    Kaientai was a fun lowcard faction/team in the WWE. I can't say I've seen much Mich Pro though.

    - Stevie Ray
    I never cared much for Steve Ray. I didn't see him as a guy who had many positives other than Harlem Heat having some credibility.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Ultimo Dragon. He was treated as a big deal in WCW for awhile. Tajiri never really amounted to being more than a lowcarder in the WWE and ECW was losing their audience when he was pushed.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    I can't comment on Kobashi, so I'll just say Taker. I look at a guy like Foley and I'm amazed that he can even walk in 2012.

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    The issue with this is that they have to be done. It's not like a tag team that are built to be close friends are just gunna, ya know, stop being friends. They have to fall out, like when friends in real life. So I really don't mind it being done so often, as long as the matches are good.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    Once again, shoulda woulda coulda. At one stage around 2007 (i think?), he was one of the top 5 in the US imo. Pity he never got a legit shot.

    - Andre The Giant
    The greatest. I haven't seen anywhere near as much as I'd like, especially from the territories, and about a quarter of what i have seen is with Warrior so I cant count it. I cannot honestly believe he doesnt have a DVD.

    - Steve Blackman
    BLACKMAN FTW. Guy was nuts. Tryna pull off a ninja gimmick with no martial art skills at all, hilarious. Will forever have the love of Nash for sheer hilarity. That and the Shane O Mac match.

    - The Colony
    Don't like the gimmick but love the matches, especially in 2009. Green Ant looks a prospect.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    I want to say a Tazz match coz he was the Don, but any answer except RVD vs Lynn is wrong.

    - Cibernetico matches
    Never seen one, sound epic.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    INDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED. Love em. Funaki is a hero. So over as faces it was a joke.

    - Stevie Ray
    Stevie Ray was just a big guy. Thats all he had for me. Booker had the talent. Never been a fan

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Dragon for his WCW work. Tajiri was at his best when he was with Regal, and that was alll because of Regal. Dragon was a MOTN contender 60% of the time

    BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    Havent seen Kobashi in a while, so I'll say Taker as Foley never really was in shape in the first place.

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    Can be good but are usually done too often for it to mean anything (I'm looking at you TNA)

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    For his rivalry with Danielson. Great match after great match, as good as his Pure & World title runs were, his feud with Danielson was a big part of both.

    - Andre The Giant
    One of the most iconic wrestlers of all time, everyone knows who Andre is.

    - Steve Blackman
    Not great in ring, but his lack of charisma actually worked for him in a way. It got him over as a no nonsense guy, or as the straight guy in a comedic duo. His hardcore title reign(s) was the best of the 24/7 era.

    - The Colony
    Greatness. Fire Ant is underrated as a singles guy, Green Ant is coming along great, and as a trio they are awesome together.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    Haven't seen enough to comment.

    - Cibernetico matches
    Only seen one in full and I enjoyed it. It's a great twist on the traditional Survivor Series/Wargames style team match.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    Only started watching them during their EVIL/INDEED days, and that was pretty funny so I'll give them that.

    - Stevie Ray
    No comment

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Considering the most I've seen of both in the US is from WWE, I have to go Tajiri by default.




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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    Never had a problem with the angles as long as they're kept in moderation. It's certainly helped to propel some guys to singles success.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    An indy genius who never amounted to much in the big time, which is a shame.

    - Andre The Giant
    The best of the big men hands down, his match with Stan Hansen from 9/23/81 is one of my all time favourites. And I concur with Jim, where the hell is the DVD set?

    - Steve Blackman
    Never a huge fan of the guy but I suppose he had his positive elements. His personality was akin to a head of lettuce.

    - The Colony
    One of the more entertaining parts of Chikara and a faction I always enjoy watching. I loved their match with Young Bucks at High Noon and Green Ant's solo bout with Quack at The Thirteenth Hat proved he has arrived in earnest.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    If Pitbulls vs. Raven and Stevie Richards Double Dog Collar 2/3 Falls Match counts then its definitely that. If not then I'll go RVD/Lynn at HH '99.

    - Cibernetico matches
    Concept is great, execution is even better. Even though they are long matches they never feel that way when you're watching them.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    If its MPro they are ****ing fantastic, in WWE I found them good for the laughs and that's about it.

    - Stevie Ray
    Is the word "meh" too harsh?

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Ultimo Dragon and I don't really think its even close.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    Foley, though I haven't seen Kobashi lately either.

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    "Feuding partners" matches/storylines- Like them if it doesn't go on to long.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?- N/A

    - Andre The Giant- Best big man of his generation.

    - Steve Blackman- Loved the mma and hardcore style.

    - The Colony-N/A

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?-Rvd vs. lynn really the only ones i've seen to be honest.

    - Cibernetico matches-N/A

    - Kai En Tai/KDX-N/A

    - Stevie Ray-didn't see mutch other than harlem heat stuff so can't comment.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?-ultimo.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?-never heard of Kobashi so taker unforonatly.
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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    I can enjoy a storyline that features a partner turning on another when it's done properly, and when it is between two partners renowned for being partners. For example, when Morgan formed his team with Hernandez, won gold, then turned on him, I found it useless, and not intriguing because there was no sentiment. When Edge and Christian broke up though... that was the ****. Great emotion, and meaning. There was some bitterness there and it was executed greatly, and also tied into a bigger picture, which was The Alliance vs. WWE.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    Flash in the pan. A few years of excellence, leading to a disappointing fading away before ever reaching his peak. At least that's how I'll remember him.

    - Andre The Giant
    All-time great. No matter what amount of immobility he possessed, he was a phenomona, and nothing short of a spectacle. He helped bring pro wrestling to the forefront. You can credit Hogan all you want, but Andre brought out the best in people and that includes Hogan. The fact that the WWE Hall of Fame was established as an almost direct result of his death tells you something about the impact the 8th Wonder of the World had on the industry.

    - Steve Blackman
    Skilled stiff worker. Interesting gimmick and someone who, if used right, could have amounted to a mid-card champion. No one's ever going to claim he deserved a world title shot, that's for sure, but who didn't love Head Cheese? A little charisma could have served him well, also. I would have also loved a team with he and RVD.

    - The Colony
    One of the great ideas of Chikara. They're masked Ant-men, and although none of them thrive off of high level ring work, their gimmick has kept them alive and kicking and the entire concept is so beyond the norm that no one's would pass up an opportunity to see them work.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    I loved RVD and Lynn's feud and the matches they had. BUT, my all-time favorite is either Tanaka vs. Awesome (their final match) or Sandman and Raven's blowoff to the "Quoth The Raven Nevermore" storyline.

    - Cibernetico matches
    I don't have much of an opinion on them. I'm not super clear on the guidelines in place, all I've ever thought of it as is a Lucha match, with 2 teams of 8 facing off against each other. Maybe those are indeed the only stipulations? Seems to be. I know I enjoy Chikara's Toreno Cibernetico, especially Team BDK vs. Team Chikara. That was a pretty sweet match, one of the best Chikara matches in my opinion. So I guess, based off of my somewhat limited knowledge of them, I like 'em.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    Fun stable in WWF. Didn't watch their whole Japanese existence, so I'm not going to comment. If indeed though, Taka Michinoku was competing as good around this period as he was during his earlier M-Pro days, I would be interested in checking it out.

    - Stevie Ray
    Awful wrestler. I'm a Harlem Heat fan, but that's rooted in my love for Booker T. Booker carried him for several years and dropped him so that he could pave his own path, which was a good idea, because Stevie Ray was a huge anchor, holding Booker T down from progression. I guess that's why Booker is "5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time... WCW Champion!"... and Stevie Ray is not.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    That's a tough one, quite frankly. I think Dragon had the more spectacular performances. He did awesome against Mysterio in WCW and during his short WWE tenure, and managed to be legit in both Cruiserweight divisions. On the other hand, Tajiri has his sweet alliance with Mikey Whipwreck and his feud with Super Crazy in ECW. He had the longer career in WWE as well I think. I'll give the slight edge to Tajiri for the US tenure. Japan of course is no competition though...

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    Foley's in the worst fighting condition. He's not fit, he never has been, and add in that all his past bumps are probably haunting him right now, I'd say he's in the worst shape. After that, Kenta. Kenta's basically been experienced a 20-year long forearm strike to the face. He should have ended it about five years ago, but if he chooses to go on, I'm not going to be the guy who tells him to stop. Last I'll say Taker. He's had it easiest for the past decade, especially for the past five years. Though he is old, and though we don't see him often, he's always stayed fit and he's never been a spot guy like Foley, and he's never been a stiff guy like Kobashi.


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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    By the way, guys, I have an Andre The Giant DVD. I dunno what you're all raving about. The cover looks like this:



    However, it's one disc, and it licks dog balls. It only covers his career from the late 70's up until the body slam challenge against John Studd. It makes no mention whatsoever on his death, legacy, or future conflicts. It's not even a real documentary so to speak, but just about 10 matches from that span of his career, most of which were squash matches. Lord Alfred Hayes narrates it all, and doesn't take time to really tell a backstory. There's no relevance from one match to another, but I'm just saying, it does exist. The best match is his match with Jimmy Snuka against The Wild Samoans.


    The EC: Good for Business.

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    ~~||*
    CLICK TO CHECK OUT THE WWF 2001: THE ICON INVADES BTB *||~~​
    ~~||* CLICK TO CHECK OUT THE WWE MMVI: THEN. NOW. FOREVER BTB *||~~
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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines

    Usually pretty boring. For one thing the whole idea of two guys being against each other but on the same side undermines the actual match they are having, and it's been played out so many times it's boring. I would much rather see two guys who are feuding against each other in a tag. The only example I can ever think of it working was the NWO '07 main, but even that was worked more as a Southern tag than a "can these guys get along?" match.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?

    Well, he should be remembered as one of the better talents of the 2000s and one of the best European wrestlers of the last 20 years. His TNA stint will likely be forgotten about, and rightfully so, but his work through 2005-2008 will likely be looked back on fondly.

    - Andre The Giant

    In his prime, an all-time great and probably the best big man worker ever. Undeniably charismatic and could make even squashes widly entertaining. The matches with Khan and Hansen were classics. After his phsyical peak, he became a pretty bad wreck, but still kept his charisma if nothing else.

    - Steve Blackman

    I think he could have been awesome had he just been more exciting in the ring. The guy has the whole "badass shoot fighter" schtick down, and he wrestled like one, but he just wasn't good enough to light the world on fire.

    - The Colony

    Not a fan. The gimmick itself is fine... for a low-card comedy act, but pushed as serious main event guys, no. That is maybe the biggest turn-off about Chikara for me. If you are going to be comedy acts, fine, be comedy acts, but don't then try and put on lengthy main event "epics". It doesn't work. As workers, I havent seen enough of the new guy to really form an opinion, but the others are your standard generic indy spotfest/MOVEZ schmucks, only with goofy masks and worse execution.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?

    Shane Douglas vs Scorp from A Matter Of Respect(?) is widely considered the best ECW match, and I'd likely agree, though I'd also say the Tajiri vs Super Crazy Mexican Deathmatch is on the same level if not better. After that it'd probably be Tajiri vs Corino or Sabu vs Sandman stairway to hell.

    - Cibernetico matches

    Really good concept, as it allows for a lot of weaker workers in a match to come in, hit their stuff then leave, but really it depends on the length of the match. Chiakra seems to have a habit of going LONG with them them, which is fine but ultimately unnecasary. I would actually like to see the WWE bring in the match at some point, it'd probably end up being better than the usual Survivor Series tags.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX

    Outstanding. I can go on about how mind-blowing they were in Japan, but even in the US they were awesome. They didn't get to show too much in WWE, but the 6-mans from ECW are also up there with the best ECW matches ever. WWE should have brought the whole group over and kept them as a low-card unit for a year or so.

    - Stevie Ray

    Literally one of the worst trained wrestlers to ever make television.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?

    Tough. Tajiri was arguably one of the best wrestlers going during his 2000 run, where Ultimo had to compete with a lot of great talent. As great as Ultimo was, I think I'd probably go with Tajiri, as he was able to adapt to the US-style more, and actually made an identity for himself in the States, where Ultimo was always a Japanese Dude In America.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?

    I'm going to say atleast Taker and Foley can atleast run the ropes, Kobashi can't even do that. Then again, he can still do a moonsault...

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    Quote Originally Posted by The EC View Post
    By the way, guys, I have an Andre The Giant DVD. I dunno what you're all raving about. The cover looks like this:



    However, it's one disc, and it licks dog balls. It only covers his career from the late 70's up until the body slam challenge against John Studd. It makes no mention whatsoever on his death, legacy, or future conflicts. It's not even a real documentary so to speak, but just about 10 matches from that span of his career, most of which were squash matches. Lord Alfred Hayes narrates it all, and doesn't take time to really tell a backstory. There's no relevance from one match to another, but I'm just saying, it does exist. The best match is his match with Jimmy Snuka against The Wild Samoans.
    That's not an Andre DVD. That's just an old Coliseum Home Video thrown on a DVD some years back. It was made in 1985 for god's sake. We need a real DVD.

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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    It was cool when the Rockers split up. After that , its became annoying. It undermines tag divisions when overly done(WWE) They seem to do it way to much and now tag wrestling is forgotten in WWE because of it. Everytime a tag team shows up in WWE, its like hmmm, i give them a 65 months to a year before they start feuding. Its like they are trying to re create a HBK type star.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?

    Awesome wrestler. Very Charismatic and good on the mic and stellar in ring wrestler. Its too bad most people won;t ever see him wrestle. Im happy that i have a great heap of DVDs with his matches.

    - Andre The Giant
    Boring. Hate his matches now. They were cool when I was 8. I'm not a fan of Giants in wrestling.

    - Steve Blackman

    I liked him . He was unique.

    - The Colony.
    Interesting gimmick. But i don't see how they can be taken seriously. But they are fun.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    Lynn vs RVD and Scorpio vs Shane. I also liked Eliminators vs RVD and Sabu.


    - Kai En Tai/KDX

    no comment

    - Stevie Ray

    He was cool in Harlem Heat

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?

    Dragon.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?

    All three. Its ridiculous to me that Taker is still wrestling even if its once a year.

  12. #12
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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    Can be entertaining if worked right. I a pair have history etc... It can work really well. But for people who have only been together for a short time then it's not really worth doing. Such as Truth and Miz. Weren't together long so when they broke up and feuded nobody really cared.

    On the other end of the scale possibly the greatest storyline was Hogan and Savage.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?

    What a talent in the ring. Was guided by some of the greatest managers imaginable. If he got the call up to WWE the sky was the limit. I have no doubt he could have held the world title. One England's greatest exports in wrestling.*

    - Andre The Giant

    I have SO much respect for Andre. Greatest " big guy" the world has seen. Had a hell of a lot of talent all round. Great legacy absolutely gutted he died so young. Love ya Andre.

    - Steve Blackman

    Always a lot of fun to watch when he want in stupid skits with Snow. Wasn't around long enough to make a major impact, unfortunate He left due to injury I think. Now he probably would have been a solid Midcarder filling in where needed. Don't think he would have made it to the top tho.

    - The Colony
    Sorry I know very little about them and the organisation.*


    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?

    I really enjoyed Funks triple threat match at Barely Legal and loved the following match with Raven (two of my favourite hardcore workers). Seeing funk win the title was incredible.

    - Cibernetico matches
    I haven't seen one my self but after reading up on the concept looks a lot of fun.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    I remember then as an annoying heel team in WFF. Can't comment much more really. Taka was quite talented but never used much in WFF.

    - Stevie Ray
    Again I can't comment I'm afraid. I have always watched WFF/WWE pretty much exclusively other than bits and bobs from other promotions.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Defiantly the Dragon. Tajiri never really went anywhere past the lower divisions even tho he was very talented.

    *- BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    Can't comment on Kenta, I guess I would go with Taker as he has wrestled a lot more than Mick has in past years and so is probably in a worse shape but having said that should be a lot fitter as Foley has barerly competed in past years.
    Shit.....You shoot me in a dream, you better wake up and apologize.





  13. #13
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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines
    Cena's tag career. Overdone maybe, but I always dig it.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?
    As someone that SHOULD have been a major star in a big company. And someone who still could be, based on his stuff with Edwards.

    - Andre The Giant
    Awesome big man who knew how to work like a big man. Apparently a bigot which is interesting. I loved his squashes and pretty much everything I saw. Even his later stuff when he wasn't very mobile worked because.. well he's a ****ing giant.

    - Steve Blackman
    From a ****ty time period, so his badness wasn't as obvious. Enjoyed him most with headcheese.

    - The Colony
    A lot of fun. Tons of it. Green Ant rules the most, probably, but my favorite when i first got into them was Fire Ant.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?
    Man, I don't even know. ECW matches weren't generally anything special and even the highly praised ones I usually just find to be fun.

    - Cibernetico matches
    Really fun concept. I don't agree that they go too long, though I can see why some would think that.

    - Kai En Tai/KDX
    Can't see I've seen enough of the Japan work to judge, ECW work was fun (though overrated in some circles) and WWF was a lot of fun as characters.

    - Stevie Ray
    UGH.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?
    Depends how you look at it, I guess. Tajiri had a lengthier run I believe, and certainly was pushed better (aka had a gimmick and feuds that got time) but Dragon had more "gold" and wasn't comedy. SO it's hard to say, but I'll go with Tajiri overall. Dragon had better work .

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?
    Not seen recent Kobashi, so I'll say Foley. Can't see how people can say Taker after his performances the last few Manias.


    Well I’m still afraid
    Like a kid in the sixties
    Staring at the sky
    Waiting for the bomb to fall
    And it’s all a lie
    What they say about stability
    It scares me sometimes
    The emptiness I see in my eyes


    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    I stopped reading when it became clear it was the same butthurt smarkf*g "real wrasslin'" crybaby rant on every youtube vid featuring Cena.



    Quote Originally Posted by Buff Bagwell on John Cena
    But I think he's bigger than Buff Bagwell. I really do.
    [02:00 AM] Dakstang : girls ain't dudes


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    Re: Thoughts On.... #6

    - "Feuding partners" matches/storylines

    Like any storyline, if it's done right with the right people it can be great. It's been done to death in TNA because Russo never met a tag team he didn't like to see argue for no reason.

    - How will Nigel McGuinness be remembered?

    A very good talent whose success never matched that talent because he did too many stupid things and it caught up to him in the end.

    - Andre The Giant

    The most famous big man of the 70s and 80s. Andre might be the biggest special attraction draw in wrestling history but once he made his permanent home in the WWF, some of his lure was gone. It's likely that more exaggerations were made about Andre than any other wrestler.

    - Steve Blackman

    Mildly amusing when he had Al Snow to play off of. Other than that, Blackman had nothing.

    - What was the best ECW match between regulars (i.e. not Rey vs Psicosis) ever?

    It doesn't hold up without having watched the week-by-week storylines that were all wrapped up into this one affair, but the Dog Collar match with Raven and Stevie Richards against the Pitbulls might be the best pure ECW-style match they ever had.

    - Cibernetico matches

    The ones I've seen have been from Mexican promotions have been very good to great. From other groups? Not so much.

    - Stevie Ray

    To get an $800,000 per-year deal from WCW, he must have had something on someone really high up. Stevie Ray was absolutely useless in every facet of wrestling.

    - Better US career: Ultimo Dragon or Tajiri?

    Tajiri. Dragon might have paraded around WCW with those Cruiserweight title belts for a while but he was one of large number of talented wrestlers in WCW that just made up the numbers. He was never really utilized, rather he was just used. And his WWE run may as well have never even happened at all. Tajiri wasn't utilized to his fullest, and he could have been a real anchor to a properly pushed Cruiserweight division, but he was given screen time in some decent midcard stuff and got over reasonably well on the big stage. Really, he was far better used in ECW and combine that with his WWE run make this question easy to answer.

    - BONUS ROUND: Who is in worse shape: Undertaker, Mick Foley or Kenta Kobashi?

    Undertaker and Kobashi, but only because I don't know if Foley has been outright told he needs a joint replaced. Undertaker has (hip), which is how you can look at Undertaker's Wrestlemania performances in recent years and still pick him. Kobashi has (both knees), which has been the case for a long time; Kobashi destroyed his knees by insisting on going all out every night, in a style that doesn't lend itself to physical longevity. Foley probably needs hips and knees replaced, but I don't know that he's been told he needs them done now or a few years from now, which makes him in microscopically better shape than the other two but that's not saying much.

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