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Thread: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

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    Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Former Cincinnati Reds shortstop and current ESPN analyst Barry Larkin was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame on Monday, getting 86.4 percent of the vote by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

    2012 Hall of Fame voting Barry Larkin was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame Monday on his third appearance on the ballot. A player needs at least 75 percent of the vote to gain election.
    Barry Larkin 496 86.4
    Jack Morris 382 66.7
    Jeff Bagwell 321 56.0
    Lee Smith 290 50.6
    Tim Raines 279 48.7
    Alan Trammell 211 36.8
    Edgar Martinez 209 36.5
    Fred McGriff 137 23.9
    Larry Walker 131 22.9
    Mark McGwire 112 19.5
    Don Mattingly 102 17.8
    Dale Murphy 83 14.5
    Rafael Palmeiro 72 12.6
    Others receiving votes: Bernie Williams, 55; Juan Gonzalez, 23; Vinny Castilla, 6; Tim Salmon, 5; Bill Mueller, 4; Brad Radke, 2; Javy Lopez, 1; Eric Young, 1.



    A player needs at least 75 percent to gain election. A 12-time All-Star and the 1995 NL MVP, Larkin got 62.1 percent of the vote last year, falling 75 votes short as Roberto Alomar and Bert Blyleven were elected.
    Jack Morris was next with 382 votes (67 percent), missing by 48 votes on his 13th try but up sharply from 54 percent last year.
    Jeff Bagwell was third with 321 votes, followed by Lee Smith (290), Tim Raines (279), Edgar Martinez (209) and Alan Trammell (211).
    Mark McGwire, 10th on the career home run list with 583, received 19.5 percent in his sixth try on the ballot, down from 19.8 percent last year and 23.7 percent in 2010 -- a vote before he admitted using steroids and human growth hormone.
    Rafael Palmeiro, who received a 10-day suspension in 2005 for a positive test but is among just four players with 500 homers and 3,000 hits, failed to gain election again, getting 12.6 percent of the vote in his second appearance on the ballot.
    Bernie Williams received the most votes among first-time eligibles, with 55. Bill Mueller got just four votes and will be dropped in future years along with Juan Gonzalez (23) and Vinny Castilla (six).
    Larkin spent his entire major league career with the Reds from 1986-2004, hitting .295 with 198 home runs, 960 RBIs, 2,340 hits and 379 stolen bases. He won three Gold Gloves and the 1990 World Series.
    He had hoped to return for a 20th season in 2005 at age 40, but retired after the Reds told him they didn't want him back.
    Larkin will be inducted on July 22 at Cooperstown, N.Y., along with the late Ron Santo, elected last month by the Golden Era Committee.
    The 2013 ballot figures to be the most controversial, with seven-time MVP Barry Bonds and seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens eligible for the first time along with Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling and Sammy Sosa.
    Bonds, Clemens and Sosa have been implicated in the use of performance-enhancing drugs, allegations they have denied.
    Well deserved for Barry, Bagwell should have gotten in also

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    I dunno about Bagwell. He was a really good player for a long time but I don't know that he was ever a really great player. He had one brilliant year and a bunch of good ones but I don't know that a "pretty good" career should get you into the HOF. He became a defensive liability because of his shoulder. I"m not saying he definitely shouldn't be in there, just that I don't think he has a rock solid claim either.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    I dunno about Bagwell. He was a really good player for a long time but I don't know that he was ever a really great player. He had one brilliant year and a bunch of good ones but I don't know that a "pretty good" career should get you into the HOF. He became a defensive liability because of his shoulder. I"m not saying he definitely shouldn't be in there, just that I don't think he has a rock solid claim either.
    1 year, go back and look at his numbers he put up from 1999 to 2001.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Really glad Larkin got in. A long time Reds fan its good to see. Bagwell was a good player and I think he deserves to get in soon. I don't think next year though, since Curt Schilling will be on the ballot next season.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Deonte View Post
    Really glad Larkin got in. A long time Reds fan its good to see. Bagwell was a good player and I think he deserves to get in soon. I don't think next year though, since Curt Schilling will be on the ballot next season.
    You honestly think Schilling is getting in?

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Schilling should definitely get in, but I'm not so sure about first ballot. I'm really surprised that Edgar only got 36.5% of the vote. Definitely should be in there. Best DH of all time.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Miqueli View Post
    1 year, go back and look at his numbers he put up from 1999 to 2001.
    Exactly part of the reason he's questionable to get in, at least in my opinion. Any power hitter who's best claim to the Hall is their HR numbers hit during the height of the Steroid Era is going to have a huge question mark. Not saying its right. Its just that ways it is now.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    Exactly part of the reason he's questionable to get in, at least in my opinion. Any power hitter who's best claim to the Hall is their HR numbers hit during the height of the Steroid Era is going to have a huge question mark. Not saying its right. Its just that ways it is now.
    But he was never caught, so either the numbers are great or he's the smartest man ever for not getting caught. Can't understand the Schilling love, great postseason pitcher, But he's an above average regular season pitcher. 216-146 with 3.46 ERA is not HOF numbers

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Miqueli View Post
    But he was never caught, so either the numbers are great or he's the smartest man ever for not getting caught. Can't understand the Schilling love, great postseason pitcher, But he's an above average regular season pitcher. 216-146 with 3.46 ERA is not HOF numbers
    The smartest man ever for not getting caught? Really? That seems an excessive exaggeration. Baseball didn't test much back then, so most of the guys who have been caught out is because of investigation into the sources. If he used and didn't get caught, its not because he was amazingly smart, but rather because he was missed by the light random testing that MLB did and likely didn't use the same sources as other players.

    The numbers are impressive. 449 career home runs puts him into some elite company. But again, whether there is evidence of use or not, anyone who hit big powe rnumbers during the steroid era is going to be looked a bit differently. The power numbers just aren't seen as quite as impressive as if they had come in a different era. That's not necessarily fair but its how it looks to be. If that wasn't the case, then Bagwell would have already done better.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Miqueli View Post
    But he was never caught, so either the numbers are great or he's the smartest man ever for not getting caught. Can't understand the Schilling love, great postseason pitcher, But he's an above average regular season pitcher. 216-146 with 3.46 ERA is not HOF numbers
    Forget the irrelevant W/L record and start looking into his other peripherals. Schilling has the best SO/BB ratio of all time, had over 3,000 career strikeouts, posted a WHIP of under 1 two times, lead the league in K's 5 times, had incredible longevity, was a part of 2 WS teams, finished 2nd in Cy Young voting 3 of 4 years and finished in the top 5 on 4 separate occasions.

    In 1996, Schilling went 9-10 with a 3.19 ERA in 36 starts. If you're measuring that up with pitchers this year, Ivan Nova and Derek Holland both had ERAs significantly higher and posted 16 wins. It's due to the team and circumstances surrounding you. Had Schilling been in New York or Boston his entire career he would have landed 300 wins without question...a stat that's a shoe in for the HOF by BBWAA voters.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    The smartest man ever for not getting caught? Really? That seems an excessive exaggeration. Baseball didn't test much back then, so most of the guys who have been caught out is because of investigation into the sources. If he used and didn't get caught, its not because he was amazingly smart, but rather because he was missed by the light random testing that MLB did and likely didn't use the same sources as other players.

    The numbers are impressive. 449 career home runs puts him into some elite company. But again, whether there is evidence of use or not, anyone who hit big powe rnumbers during the steroid era is going to be looked a bit differently. The power numbers just aren't seen as quite as impressive as if they had come in a different era. That's not necessarily fair but its how it looks to be. If that wasn't the case, then Bagwell would have already done better.
    Palmerio, Mcgwire, Bonds, Sosa all caught or on the 2003 list. Nothing reported on Bagwell.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
    Forget the irrelevant W/L record and start looking into his other peripherals. Schilling has the best SO/BB ratio of all time, had over 3,000 career strikeouts, posted a WHIP of under 1 two times, lead the league in K's 5 times, had incredible longevity, was a part of 2 WS teams, finished 2nd in Cy Young voting 3 of 4 years and finished in the top 5 on 4 separate occasions.

    In 1996, Schilling went 9-10 with a 3.19 ERA in 36 starts. If you're measuring that up with pitchers this year, Ivan Nova and Derek Holland both had ERAs significantly higher and posted 16 wins. It's due to the team and circumstances surrounding you. Had Schilling been in New York or Boston his entire career he would have landed 300 wins without question...a stat that's a shoe in for the HOF by BBWAA voters.
    3 World series teams actually. The BBWAA still is old fashioned when it comes to stats

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Miqueli View Post
    Palmerio, Mcgwire, Bonds, Sosa all caught or on the 2003 list. Nothing reported on Bagwell.
    And?

    Again, its not the taint of being caught but the slight taint of being part of that era. If that didn't exist, Bagwell probably does better this year and might be going in with Larkin. Its not like tons of players have hit 449 or more home runs. But being a power hitter in that era is a negative. The mid or late career power boom wasn't that pronounced with Bagwell but you can see a bit of an arc there if you're looking for circumstantial evidence. Again, maybe not fair but it the bias seems to be there.

    I have nothing against Bagwell. Have no idea if he used and honestly don't care that much. I am far far less bothered by steroid usage in baseball than most fans. But there does seem to be concern with Hall voters. "Deserving" to be in the Hall becomes only part of the battle, as perception matters a great degree.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papa View Post
    And?

    Again, its not the taint of being caught but the slight taint of being part of that era. If that didn't exist, Bagwell probably does better this year and might be going in with Larkin. Its not like tons of players have hit 449 or more home runs. But being a power hitter in that era is a negative. The mid or late career power boom wasn't that pronounced with Bagwell but you can see a bit of an arc there if you're looking for circumstantial evidence. Again, maybe not fair but it the bias seems to be there.

    I have nothing against Bagwell. Have no idea if he used and honestly don't care that much. I am far far less bothered by steroid usage in baseball than most fans. But there does seem to be concern with Hall voters. "Deserving" to be in the Hall becomes only part of the battle, as perception matters a great degree.
    Well he went up 14.3% this year to 56%, he's only 19% away from getting in. With the first batch of the "steroid boys" coming up for election next year. I could see him getting in next year. I read somewhere online the reason he didn't get in this year, is that so he could go in with Biggio next year

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Jack Morris not making it in is a damn shame.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines all deserve to get in. There's really no doubt in my mind.


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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan Superman View Post
    Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines all deserve to get in. There's really no doubt in my mind.
    I agree with this statement.

    And I am glad Barry got in. He wasn't the greatest SS to ever play the game but he was consistent year in and year out.

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    Re: Barry Larkin makes the HOF

    good for him. He was a great player and deserves the honor

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